Fellowship in the Household of Faith
January 9, 2013
BELIEVER 6: true prayer involves two people, God and man. Such prayers are the result of the spirit of
man mingling with the Spirit of God. WE
can say that the Spirit of God prays in the spirit of man. The Spirit of God and the spirit of man are
perfectly united; they are intimately united in prayer. We hope that all see that prayer has
primarily to do with the mingling of God and man.
BELIEVER 6: beloved Lord, help me to understand my true identity as a
son of God, allow me to experience the liberty.
You have purchased me through the blood of Christ. Show me the areas of my life that I am still
bound in. Help me to surrender the
things that I don’t want to give to You.
Help me to understand I can trust in You, not in my own strength, to
have victory in You.
BELIEVER 2: Everything was
created through Him and for Him. The key
to everything with God is Life. The
supremacy, power, and the headship of Christ; He is the Son, vested with
Life. He has the given right of God to
give Life to all believers. That is why
He is the head, you can set up people in office and make them popes and make
great claims, but what does that do?
When you come to death, what can they do? Be ever so humble, on this earth, He is the
head, master and Lord. You can bring all
the greatestphysicians into the presence of death, but they can’t do
anything. But supposing you bring in a
little, insignificant person who is nobody, with no capabilities whatever in
this world, no training, and that one be invested with the power of life over
death, he rules out all these others, they are as nothing in his presence, he
is lord of the situation.Christ is the Head, not just by appointment, but in
terms of Life. We may be insignificant
on the earth, but we can have a supreme position in Christ in the fullness of
His Life. Christ is not tradition,
history, or theology, but the Spirit and Life, through faith and righteousness. Amen
BELIEVER 1: I am learning more of God’s words each day. I read my bible
and listen to others read to me. God’s word is shaping my life. I will use God’s Word to make new
friends. His word will show me how to
treat others. His word will help me to make every day a day of blessings. I will
delight myself in Your statutes. I will
not forget Your word. Psalm 119:16
BELIEVER 7: Christ is the Life
and Person of the New Man. (From the One
New Many by Witness Lee)
The intention of God is to obtain the New Man. The intention of God in His New Testament economy
is to obtain a New Man to replace the old man.
The Lord has shown a new concept for us, even though it’s something you
can clearly see in the New Testament.
Ephesians 4 saysto put off the old man and put on the New Man. Our natural and religion concept is not to
take off the old man. Even some bible
translators and scholars don’t understand the New Man. The natural man is blind by the veil of its
concepts. The New American Standard
version says in 4:24, that we need to “put on the new self.” But according to 2:15, it is not acceptable
to say the new self, which was created in the righteousness and holiness of the
reality. No matter what the natural
concept of the translators is, there does exist the concept of taking off the
old man, and putting on the New Man.
These guys only touched the point of the old nature and the new
self. We need to take away our old
concept, because these become obstacles and veils that keep us from understanding
the bible. In Ephesians, Paul talks
about the old man and the New Man, Paul talks about the New Man being
corporate. 2:15 says, “abolishing in His
flesh the law in commandments expressed in ordinances, to create in Himself of
the two, One New Man, making peace. “
“The two” refers to two races, the Jews and Gentiles. From these two, there was created one New Man,
without a doubt the New Man is a corporate man, and under the same principle the
old man is also a corporate old man. We
should take off the corporate old man, and put on the corporate New Man, the
intention of God is not only that we would be saved, neither that is it only
that we learn to be spiritual, neither that we only grow in Christ, (there’s a
lot further than those things). The Lord
is not satisfied that we have a proper church life. The local church according
to the New Testament economy and all these things are proper.
BELIEVER 4: These words make nails for what is the organized religion.
BELIEVER 7: The local church according to the New Testament economy and
all the other things (growth, spirituality, etc.) are all proper; but the God’s
intention in His New Testament economy is to obtain a New Man that replaces the
old man.
The principle of this brother (Witness Lee) is radical. Nothing of the old man, only what is of the New
Man.
BELIEVER 4: It is not only Witness Lee that said these things. This is
what Paul said, by the inspiration of God.
He is the one who first talked about, just One New Man. This is contrary to everything that we can
do.
BELIEVER 7: Here Witness Lee expounding and touching the deepest point
(the deepest intention).
BELIEVER 5: I am enjoying the finer cut of the meat here, getting into
the filet mignon. Keep going brothers;
this is very tasty (Hallelujah!)
BELIEVER 7: In real life, we all suffer deeply to try to arrive to the
points we are talking about.
BELIEVER 4: The real life is not the life that we feel. The real life is Christ being formed in human
beings who allow Him to do so. So, we
still value our old life, and believe that this is a real life, but the real life
according to what God manifests is His Son; he who has the Son has the Life, he
who does not have the Son does not have the Life. To have the Son is the greatest blessing that
we can have.
Insert Here an audio clip from Brother Colin Urquhart
“What about us? This is not a
question of “Lord bless me.” Me is still
very important in that prayer. It really
is much more, “have Your way with me Lord.”
You want Your holiness, You want Your love, Your goodness, You want
everything about Yourself to be filling this life that I have surrendered to
You. I don’t consider it my life; it is
Your life because You have purchased me for God. So, what is the cry of your heart. Or what does the cry of your heart need to
be. I just want more of You, Lord. More of You Jesus. I am desperate, I am desperate for more of
You in my life. Now, God has given you
the fullness of His life, so you are not asking Him to give you something don’t
have. But you are saying, “Lord I am
desperate for more of what You have given me, to flood my life, so that it can
be revealed, who and what I am.” That’s the name of the game. But the cry of
the heart is exactly that. It can’t be
imitated, it can’t be copied, it can’t
be expressed in silence; it is only an intention when it is in silence. What holds us back, especially when we are
together? Self-consciousness, the soul.We
are more worried about how we will appear to others, than how we will appear to
God. God wants to bring you to the point
my friends where how it will seem to you that you cannot live another day
without more of Him. You can’t live
another day without Him coming and taking over, the government being upon His
shoulders.
BELIEVER 4: Concerning the
silence, one can experience is saying, if one has a part of what God
gives. I am in agreement with what
Jeanne Guyon says, and what other brothers say.
When we are full of Him, the silence is a demonstration of our fullness. Brother David Duplantis, Mr. Pentecost, he
said to a brother, “some speak because they don’t know what to say, and others
are in silence because they are full of what He is. When one is full of Him, they are where they
need to be. You brother, you are still,
you still talk, because you are still full of yourself. When you cease being full of yourself, you
will be full of Him.” In other words,
what I can say, of this piece that BELIEVER 3 put, in the way that he is
putting it and has, concerning the soul and spirit, it is another language, but
it is the same spirit. Brother Urquhart
is speaking these things in the Spirit, and the Spirit speaks this for certain
people that can’t understand what the others live. This brother is putting in words what others
don’t understand, but he does. And God’s
authority is in his words. But what the
Lord is doing with us, He doesn’t want us to have one part, He wants us to have
the fullness of Him. For this we need to
have our ears, and our sight, and all of our spiritual senses completely
awakened to be able to see what the Lord is speaking.
BELIEVER 3: the
type of silence that he is talking about is when, one might be in a meeting and
God is working in their heart, but one doesn’t want to lose face. (Some brothers didn’t understand that term).
You understand what lose face means BELIEVER 5.
BELIEVER 5: yes I understand it in the flesh, and I
understand it too in the Spirit.
BELIEVER 3: what I understand concerning saving or
losing face is mainly when the Lord is working in our heart, and we have a cry
in our heart, and it is in a corporate setting, so we are not alone, but our
self-consciousness likes the way that our face looks, in relative peace. When you lose that your face looks broken,
and maybe there is tears on it, and you lose your peaceful looking face. The flesh doesn’t want to lose the peaceful
looking face. Now BELIEVER 5 can share
the spiritual meaning of losing face
BELIEVER 5: Losing face in the spirit, not losing
face in the flesh amongst your peer group.
In the Greek, the term “lose’ is middle voice. This applies to `beholding the Lord, and when
there is a human being who is not by the spirit in them beholding the Father,
then they lose the face of the Father in the Son who is us. So the human being loses the reflection of
the Father in the Son in themselves among others. And the light is out, which is the Light of
the world. And if the eye is not single, then the body is not enlightened, and
then how great is that darkness! To a
blind disciple who says to Jesus in John 14:8, he says, “Show us the Father.” And Jesus says, “Have I been with you so long
that you haven’t seen the Father.” So
there are blind people who are only following Jesus as a master leading their
discipled flesh, and they are not experiencing a relationship with their Father
in the Son as sons of God, rather than just disciples. Now we just covered a lot of turf here. Just reflecting back on BELIEVER 7 sharing on
the One New Man, which would really be the reflection of the Father in the Son
in His sons and daughters; all of us enjoying Christ as the One New Man. So the Father would be glorified in the Son
as our Life. Then the verse in 2 Cor. 3:
“so that we behold the glory of the Lord and we would be changed, transformed
from glory to glory.” Lord Jesus, help
us not to lose face, but let us be filled with Your Spirit.
BELIEVER 4: what is the glory that the Father gave to the Son? What is the glory that Son gives to us from
the Father, by the Spirit?
Answer:
BELIEVER 5: I was reminded of what Jesus said in John 17 in the first 8
verses, where this glory is expounded upon by the Lord Jesus Himself. There is another verse in Psalm 110:1-4, David relates to it in Matt 22, when David
says, in the Spirit, the Lord said unto My Lord, sit down here until I make thy
enemies a footstool. So there is a
beautiful revelation of the revelation, where we need subjectively to
understand the glory of God in ourselves, as we hear Jesus talk about the glory
of the Father in Himself. So
objectively, we see the Father glorified in the Son, and then subjectively, we
can experience the Son being glorified in us.
And so in 2 Cor. 3:17 where the Lord’s spirit is in us subjectively, we
experience the Son’s Spirit in us, beholding the Father in a perfect reflection
in the sinless Son, so that the Father’s image is perfected reflected in the
Son, and so we experience their reflection in us. And by that the veil of the heart is turned
and we are caught up with Christ beholding the Father in our lives, on the
earth, and experiencing the Father’s life on the earth as it is in heaven. So this is the fulfillment of the old
testament symbol of the presence of God filling the temple, or in this case the
tabernacle. And the opposite is when the
glory departed and it is called “Ichabod” which means that the Father is not
being glorified in the Son in us, which means we lose face. We have lost the glory of God, and the
opposite in psychology when we are talking about the spirit and the soul, and
this is where we hear the terminology brought up, which is that a person is
shamed face, they are ashamed, not because they have done something wrong that
they are guilty of, but because they have lost their identity, and the glory
departs and we fail to experience who we are.
This is just the beginning of our social psychology. As a group, as members as the body of Christ,
or of the household of faith, we need to be the many different faucets of the
diamond all uniquely reflecting the glory of God.
BELIEVER 4: it is time to put… you gave a long explanation between the
relation of the Father and the Son. If
we see how the Son was incarnated, if we see in the Spirit, the Word became
flesh, we are going to see the Father in the Son by the Spirit, and we can
understand with our spiritual senses what is the glory that the Father gave to
the Son. It is same glory that Father,
Son, and Spirit share. It is the same
glory that the Son offers to us, in a middle voice, “if any would come after
me.” The perfect unity, oneness that
exists between the Father, Son, and Spirit has a center, and this center is the
cross, which is the relationship between the Father, the Son, and the spirit,
and the Son offers to us the same kind of relationship. Paul tells us, far be it from me to glory
save in the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ.
If we take the cross of the Lord Jesus, we take communion with the
Father and communion with the Spirit. In this union, when it says, “the Lamb
slain before the foundation of the earth…” one can see the cross and the perfect
unity between the Father and the Son on the cross. Kathryn Kuhlman talked about the conversation
that happened in eternity past. In this conversation, the center was the cross,
between the Father, Son, and Spirit. It
is not the cross we see, two pieces of wood stuck together; it is the cross,
not my will but your will be done. In
other words, the moment that anyone is willing to know the Son of God, and take
His cross, and follow Him, begins to know the mystery of the Father in the Son
by the Spirit, and this is glorious.
Why? Because I cannot, though I
tried for many years, understand what God is, when I try to take away the
cross. That is impossible. 99.999% of
people try to separate the cross of the Lord Jesus, and live the Christian
life, with the fundamental ingredient, which the relationship of the Father,
Son, and Spirit, (a relationship with one another). And, nobody can come arrive to have this
life, a life which is unto death, and is a resurrected life that comes out of
death, so we see, that it’s by the life of God that we take the cross. So we can deny our will. For this, the cross of the Lord Jesus is
completed. When He took cross, the Lord
established provision for us to have access to the Spirit. This is marvelous, because without the
Spirit, it is impossible that we go to the cross with Joy.
BELIEVER 5: we are just looking unto Jesus who for the Joy set before
Him endured the cross, and despised the shame, and this is in us. Bill Freeman has a beautiful piece in “Our
Common Oneness,” where he talks about this work of the cross, concerning the
deepest dimensions of the cross which BELIEVER 4 was addressing earlier
concerning Christ being crucified from the foundation of the world, where when
the cross really becomes embedded in us, so when we are bearing the cross, we
are carrying the cross, bearing it, we are one with it, what I really enjoy
about it that brother Freeman brings out is that what it does is, it not only
puts an end to our carnal life individually, but the secondary level of it, is
that it knocks out the false relationships that are based upon the old man
living, which is living in a self-centered way with one another. So the secondary effect of the cross working
in each one of us is that the old relationships are annulled, they are
stopped. This is wonderful.
BELIEVER 4: What you spoke BELIEVER 5 concerning what brother Bill
Freeman wrote in his book, there is a fundamental point, in the eyes of God,
according to the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world, the Father, the
Son, and the Spirit can only been seen in the New Creation. In other words, for us, it is marvelous that
the knock out of the old creation exists.
So Jesus was a fragrant odor to please the Father. This is what justifies us, because we are
included in His death, and His resurrection.
(BELIEVER 5: especially).
BELIEVER 5: So this deeper work of the cross which is a mystery to the
natural man, because all the natural man sees in the cross is death, so this is
the way it is with most of Christendom, they only see the cross in terms of
death, and they don’t see Jesus voluntarily laying His life down, and receiving
everyone as Himself, which was what was going on at the cross, when HE allowed
Himself to be crucified, expressing His oneness with everyone through death. And Freeman talks about in our common oneness
is how to receive one another as Christ has received us so that we can
experience what the reality of the cross is actually doing because the verb,
“to receive” this is a middle voice verb.
Isn’t it beautiful? This is a
mystery because the natural man either tries to embrace the cross himself life
Peter did, and said, “I’ll die with You” but he ran away. So we see the active
and passive human being with the cross (failing), but when we behold Christ,
the author and Finisher of our faith, we get the reflection of the One who
knows who we are in the depths of us being created in the image and likeness of
God. He allowed Himself to die, and by
allowing Himself to die, that revealed who He really is, and who He really is
receives us as Himself, and so we begin to understand the receivership… how we
receive one another, how we experience the life of the cross, the life behind
the cross, the human being that was nailed to the cross, this is what we need
to see at the cross, because here is Jesus, He is losing face before people, He
is stripped. He is cursed, He is hanging
on a tree, HE is being made ashamed of, and this is so incredible because when
we look there we see the extent of His love and receivership where He goes, “I
am receiving you to this degree. And when you go ahead and see me lifted up, on
the cross and the Spirit causes you to see who I am you will be delivered from
your nakedness, your shame, that Adam and Eve were ashamed, they were
“em-bare-assed”, they were naked. I love
embracing the life of this New Man, this Corporate Christ, who through His
cross incorporated everybody. This is
just marvelous. Praise the Lord. I love how the cross removes all of our
divisions, isolationism, and causes us to experience the oneness of the
Spirit. And I reflect back on 2 Cor. 3
where it is talking about these two kinds of glories. When we see how glorious it is that the law
brings death and just like the cross on a certain level of understanding the
cross it is wonderful and we glory in the cross because, “wow, the old man is
dead!” That’s a wonderful glory, but that is a fading glory, “Oh, we died, yah, wonderful.” But the more wonderful thing is that there is
the new creation which was recreated at the cross when Jesus allowed Himself to
be crucified and all of humanity died, all of the false system is
destroyed. All of the ground that the
devil uses to unify humanity, the humanism and conspiracy against the True and
Living God; the cross is this weapon that totally annihilates the false world
system, which is a one world government.
What we have been talking about these difficulties and challenges going
on in the world, if we go out there are communicating this glorious gospel in
what the cross really means and taking captive and utterly set free from this
attempted one world government, this is awesome. Because everybody seems to know about
it. So the people are wondering, “what
will we do to defend ourselves against the one world government, what will we
do, will we use guns? How will we defend
ourselves?”
BELIEVER 3: I talked about these things with my dad, and he talked
about how corrupt the beloved U.S. is. (You mean the false unity). How we pretend to be big brothers to help
other countries (You’re talking about the temporal government of the United
States). Yes, how the temporal
government of the United States pretends to be big brothers (You’re talking
about the temporal human government of the United States). That statue that Daniel saw. How they only help the little brothers that
they have interests in. (You mean that
we are self-centered?) Economic interests.
(That’s terrible, that’s going to make me cry). Believe it or not. I said that it is not necessarily countries
that we are dealing with, but that it is proabably a group of man running these
different countries so that they can control everybody (You mean to attempt to
control everyone). Yes, to attempt to
control, I have to work on my perception.
(We are practicing). We got to a
point in the conversation to the hopelessness we have in the current human
government, and them some others joined in and we had to change channels. We stopped in the hopelessness of the current
situation.
BELIEVER 4: the only thing I will say, is that some part of you pointed
out the meaning of everything towards God, and this is a good thing, because
most of us naturally cannot tolerate these kinds of things. Even in a joking way.
Brother 5 put the things in a humorous way, with the reality there,
that normal people cannot tolerate, woa, sorry let me change my language,
normal people in this world, that are actually unnormal in the eyes of God, but
most human beings that are unnormal, but happen to be the majority on the
earth, wouldn’t find any type of humor in the things that we are talking
about.
BELIEVER 5: I think that you are right with the unregenerate, or the
unrecreated. That’s vocabulary for your
college level, for anyone that is making a profession, like a professor. Unrecreated people. That is Crucifictorious. That is like glorying in the cross. The is crucifictoriously speaking. If I speak with most people like this, they
will look at me like I have three heads.
We are communing crucifictoriously, like what we brought out earlier again
Christ being crucified before the foundation of the world. If we speak crucifictoriously, we are
preaching the cross in everything we are doing, to the glory of God.
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