Fellowship in the Household of Faith
02/20/2012
BELIEVER 1: In Him we live and move and have our being. The whole bible is about bringing man back to
God, bringing him into God, and restoring to his environment. In Him we live and move and have our
being. This is the fundamental truth of
the spiritual life, that there is one issue that I suggest to you, which if you
grasp it, would be such tremendous help to you.
When the Lord says anything, it may look on the surface to be something
very simple, and not at all profound and wonderful. But anything that comes from the Lord, though
it may be apparently simple, it contains a vast knowledge and understanding
that the Lord has which we may not take account of. When the Lord Jesus says,
“abide in Me,” it sounds so simple and ordinary, but it contains all of this
history and this great principle of truth.
If you get out of your environment you are exposed to the poisons and
all kinds of spiritual disease. Abide in
Christ for your health’s sake.” Abide in Me and I in you.” Have you got that? You look again at any seemingly little thing
that the Lord says, and if you can see you could find that there is a universe
of meaning in it.
Here it is talking about bringing what the bible is in reality,
bringing it into our being. Even though
we may not be able to grasp it, the Lord will be able to grasp it through us,
as long as you have the principle of truth that is here.
BELIEVER 6: I want to share this.
Advice to the Youth. Be happy
about being young, walk in the way of the of your own heart in the days of you
youth, and walk by the sight of your eyes. But overall, know that you will be
judged by God in all of these things.
BELIEVER 6: From the Knowledge
of Life by Witness Lee (Chapter 13)
“Before we were saved, while we were yet
sinners, we often offended God and wronged men in our conduct and behavior; our
heart was filthy and deceitful; therefore, the conscience, being darkened, was
full of offenses and leakages and was extremely unclean. “
BELIEVER 4: we are talking about the old man,
right?
BELIEVER 2: we haven’t used those terms, but
yes, we are talking about the old man.
BELIEVER 6: Continues with the Knowledge of
Life
“Hence, as soon as we are saved, we should
deal with the conscience. When we were first saved, a major portion of the
lessons we learned, such as making restitution for past debts, clearing our old
living, etc., was to cause us, even from the outset of following the Lord, to
deal adequately with the conscience that it be clean and without offense.
Afterwards, during our entire life of following the Lord, we might fail at
times and become weak, thereby falling into sin and the flesh or becoming
contaminated and occupied by the world, thus again causing our conscience to
have both offenses and leakages; therefore we need to deal continually with our
conscience that it may be kept constantly free of offense. First Timothy 1:19
says: “Holding...a good conscience; which some having thrust from them made
shipwreck concerning the faith.” This shows us that dealing with the conscience
is very much related to the growth of life. Whenever we thrust aside the
conscience and neglect the conscience, life is immediately blocked and
imprisoned. Therefore, if we desire to have growth in life, if we want the life
within us to have an outlet and grow out from our heart, it is imperative that
we deal with the conscience.To deal with the conscience means to deal with all
the offenses and the restless and uneasy feelings of the conscience.”
BELIEVER 3: can you explain this, it is a
little complex.
BELIEVER 6: Resolving the problems of the
conscience means to eliminate all of the offences and disturbing feeling of the
conscience.
“Before God, whether we become unrighteous
because of sin, unholy because a part of the world has occupied our heart, or
uneasy because of other inharmonious conditions, our conscience condemns us
within, thus causing us to have feelings of offense and uneasiness before God.
If we want to deal with the conscience, we must pay attention to such
consciousnesses in the conscience. Therefore, to deal with the conscience is to
deal with these consciousnesses in the conscience. When we have dealt
thoroughly with them, our conscience can be exceedingly clean and secure having
neither offense nor accusation.In this way life can naturally grow out from
within us.”
This is really difficult what Witness Lee
shares. But it is good because it cleans
all the dirtiness and thorns our conscience has, and all the things that we
have in our interior life.I think that this is a good analysis of the
conscience which is the motor of the heart.
BELIEVER 2: I am going to go back and answer
more thoroughly the question of BELIEVER 4.
I said that Witness Lee was sharing about the conscience of the old man,
but he is actually talking about the conscience of the old man within
believers.
BELIEVER 4: you mean an unbelieving (Verb),
believer (noun, person).
BELIEVER 2: that is a good way to put
it.
BELIEVER 4: I just thought, because we are
talking in the realm of conscience, and norms and standards, that we needed a
subject and a verb differentiation, which can be rather deceptive in itself
(just using the term believer).
BELIEVER 6: yes, and this analysis by Witness
Lee is to shake a person who is not really a believer. So a lot of people are not real believer.
BELIEVER 4: Yes, or a deceived believer.
BELIEVER 2: I like this terminology because
it helps me in my own experience, or regarding myself. And I have not found a way to express it
quite like that, that a person can be a believer in the sense of a noun, but
not be a believer in the sense of a verb, or can be a deceived believer, which
may be a person that has believed but has is in some kind of darkness regarding
the truth, or is being deceived to just leave it at that.
BELIEVER 4: yes, they have a positional truth
BELIEVER 2, but the experience is gone.
BELIEVER 5: Prayer
From HWMR Daniel, Zecariah (Week 1)
The Rule of the Heavens, the Economy of God,
and the Excellent Christ as the Precious and Preeminent One in God’s Move.
The central thought of Daniel is that the
ruling of the heavens by the God of the heavens over tall the human government
on earth matches God’s eternal economy for Christ to terminate the old creation
for the germination of the new creation and to smash and crush the aggregate of
human government and establish the eternal kingdom of God.
The Most High is the Ruler over the kingdom
of men and gives it to whomever He wills.
We need to see a vision of the throne
of God as the center of God’s administration. God on the throne is behind the scene, ruling
over everyone and everything. We need
to “come to know that the heavens do rule.”
We need to see God’s economy as it is revealed in the book of
Daniel. God desires to make Christ the
centrality and universality of His move on earth. There is the need of Christ’s second coming
to clear up the universe physically and materially; in particular, there is the
need of Christ’s second coming to terminate human government. Daniel reveals that now Christ as the Son of
M<an is before the throne of God to receive dominion and a kingdom. The excellent Christ, the centrality and
universality of God’s economy, is the precious and preeminent One in God’s
move. Christ appeared in His strong
speaking for judging people, as signified by the sound of His words being like
the sound of a multitude. As a man, such
a Christ is precious, valuable, complete, and perfect. God’s intention in His administration is to
give Christ the preeminence in all things, to cause Christ to have the first
place in everything. Christ must have
the first place, the preeminence, in our personal universe. Today Christ, the preeminent One, must be the centrality and universality in
our church life, family life, and daily life.
As those who have been chosen by God to be His people for Christ’s
preeminence, we are under God’s heavenly rule.
The purpose of the heavenly ruling is to complete God’s elect so that
Christ may be preeminent, that He may be the first-the centrality-and
everything-the universality. We all need
to learn that this universe is under God’s administration and that God’s
intention in His administration is to make Christ preeminent, to cause Him to
have the first place in all things.
“He is everything, and we have to learn to
give Him the first place in all things, all the time, not only in certain
moments, and in all places. If He
doesn’t help us, we can’t do anything.
One needs to be emptied so that God can fill and do everything for that
person.”
BELIEVER 4: I have a registration of a few
different things in my conscience during that reading, like BELIEVER 6 was
talking about conscience. At one point
in the reading, the expression was, “I think,” and another was one about ,”a
choice.” And when I heard those two
expressions in the context in which they were being shared, then it caused me
to reflect on BELIEVER 5’s opening comment about when she said, “I feel
weak.” I and said that to say this, that
if that was accurate, what was read, then because of what was said, I could see
where the weakness would be.
BELIEVER 2: I think, that BELIEVER 2 said, “I
think” during the translation, in reference to my own self saying “I think”
because I was sure how to translate what BELIEVER 5 was sharing. So she didn’t share the words “I think.” I said, in the midst of translating, “I
think” because I was sure about what I was communicating.
BELIEVER 4: how about the one where it says
that we are chosen. The way that was
spoken also took it out of context, in the sense that we have been chosen in
Christ. We have not been chosen outside
of Christ. So the sense that came in, in
my conscience, was that it wasn’t spoken in the context of “chosen in Christ,”
which consequently puts us in a very weak position. What just actually transpired was that the
person was a believer, but the person experienced being an unbeliever. So I just experienced what BELIEVER 6 read
earlier, in listening to what was being communicated.
BELIEVER 3: I feel that we need the
Lord. We have points in which the Lord
is working with us, in which if we don’t turn to Him, we feel that it is really
difficult to understand what He is working in us. This is one side of the coin. But if we go to the other side of the coin,
we can see that the Lord doesn’t despise anyone. This is something that we can’t bear in our
old self. I feel that the Lord has
allowed a circumstance between the brothers and sisters, in the days before, in
which we are brought to know a continual need.
The only way to receive all the things that we have in Christ is by the
death of the old creation. The apostle
Paul said, “I keep my body under death.”
In the moment that this happens in reality, we have the access to all
things that we have in Christ, immediately.
We touched this point with BELIEVER 4 in the morning. If we go to the original in Greek and we
review the meaning of “that Christ may be formed in you,” and if we see “that
Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith,” in reality we come to a point in which we
can’t go anywhere without the Spirit of the Lord giving a clear manifestation
of what He is working with us. When I reviewed
some material after the fellowship with BELIEVER 4; I had the chance to see, we
have access to everything immediately in Christ. This sounds wonderful…and BELIEVER 4 pointed
out something that Bill Freeman showed, but I will put not only part of what
Bill Freeman says, but how he dealt with everything, in his book, “The Church
is Christ.” There, we arrive to an inner
reality concerning what the New Testament is regarding the corporate
Christ. And he gives an example about how
this happens, whether it is progressive or instantaneous. I am going to read some portion.
Christ being formed in us, is like having the
system folder in operating order. If I am not interacting with Christ, then I
am interacting with the law, or what is formed in my mind. I am interacting
with my feelings of discouragement or the reasonings of my mind. My point of
reference when I go through things is not Christ, but it is something else. It
is my feelings, the outward circumstances, the situation, the law, what I’m supposed
to be, or even what I’m not — all these mental gyrations that go on within us.
The principle is that whatever is formed in me is what I interact with. If
Christ is formed in me, crying, “Abba, Father,” I interact with Him. If
something else is formed in me, I interact with that.
BELIEVER 4: present active participle
“Crying”
BELIEVER 3: Christ formed in me doesn’t mean
I’m perfect, that I’m a finished product. Christ formed in me means that my
point of reference is always and ever Christ — that He would have the first
place in everything. So I don’t know how to handle myself. I don’t know how to
handle sin. I don’t know how to handle my reactions to my environment. But
Christ has already handled all these things. So by taking Him as my point of
reference in all these things,I remain in fellowship with Him.
BELIEVER
4: but has Christ already handled all these things BELIEVER 3?
BELIEVER
3: I'm going to go to this point so that we have a base for our experience. I
am not just reading words, I'm not taking parts that I don't experience, and
taking parts that I experienced.
BELIEVER
4: this is potentially quite painful, unless Christ has already dealt with it.
This context is vital, whole paragraph and everything is vital. Otherwise will
pass out, you read the rest of the paragraph that would probably quicken the
dead.
BELIEVER
3: "But Christ has already handled all these things So by taking Him as my
point of reference in all these things, I remain in fellowship with Him.".
How did Christ handle all of these things? After Bill Freeman talks about the
tense of the verb, he understands the Greek.
When
Paul speaks of Christ being “formed” in you, he uses the Greek aorist tense,
indicating that it happens at a point in time. This bothered me for years,
because most Bible teachers have interpreted the word “formed” as though it was
a present tense, giving the impression that it means a process happening over a
period of time...They were, as Paul says in Galatians 5:4, “discharged” from
Christ living and operating in them, because they went to something else. Instead
of Christ being formed in them, Moses was formed in them, circumcision was
formed."
This
happens to us if we don't allow Christ to operate in us. And we're not an
exception. Because, "Instead of Christ being formed in them, Moses was
formed in them, circumcision was formed." This is what we are, because we
normally come from the life and teachings under law. How do we get free from
this body of sin and death. We have
everything instantaneously in the spirit, that how does this glorious Christ
manifests himself as our life? Or do we have him imprisoned inside?"Maybe
due to your religious background, what is formed in your mind right now are
your own thoughts about the way you’re supposed to be. You feel like you can’t
get to the Lord until you fulfill some requirement."
In
other words, whosever, if they are not freed from the law they cannot allow
Christ to operate. Even if Christ is formed in us and it is instantly. If we
are really born again we have the Lord in us, and Christ is formed in us, but
we live by the old things that are formed in us.
BELIEVER
2: so this is like being believers only in noun, but not being believers in
verb.
BELIEVER
4: BELIEVER 3, are you telling us that the cross delivers us not only from the
flesh, world, and the devil, but also from the law?
BELIEVER
3: of course. "And Your point of
reference is the Head. Seize the Head. Don’t you seize ordinances or
regulations, such as, “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle” (Col.
2:20-21)."
BELIEVER
4: it has been more like a study tonight. But I'm looking forward to enjoying
the sweet bread after these things have been discussed by the brothers. I
realize that is a little challenging because it is more the study.
BELIEVER
3: "Seize the Head and you will grow with the growth of God." And
here brother Bill Freeman puts the details of what it means to have fellowship
with the Lord. "What an encouragement that right now all of us can have
Christ as our point of reference — our
relationship with the Father, our relationship with one another, our
relationship to everything in our life. When He is formed within our heart, we
are fellowshipping with Him, partaking of Him, drinking and eating Him, and
living from Him. Amen. Isn’t this wonderful? And when there is a group of
people on this earth enjoying this reality, then it doesn’t matter what
problems or what weaknesses they have, or how many battles and bruises they
have. Brothers and sisters, all these things are for Christ to become all in
him and him and him all to you. When He
is all in all to you..."
Then
brother Bill Freeman talks some important points on the passive voice...
"This
is brought out by observing that the verb “formed” is in the passive voice,
rather than the active. The active voice wouBeliever 3 imply that we are somehow
responsible for Christ to be formed in us, but the passive voice tells us that
something outside ourselves is the means for Christ to be formed in us. In
other words, God uses a means or agent to form Christ in us. The agent He uses
is the Word of God."
Here
is a very serious point that 99.99% of people do not understand...
"Thus,
as we come under the hearing of the Word, it becomes the agent that forms
Christ in us. This Word brings us under the hearing of faith, and Christ is
formed in our heart."
So
we can be hearing the word, but if we're not hearing with the hearing of faith,
we are not hearing anything. In he explained something of Romans 10:8, "In
Romans 10:8 Paul says, “ ‘The word is near you, even in your mouth and in your
heart,’ that is, the word of faith which we preach.”
This
is key. "This is called “the hearing of faith” (Gal. 3:2, 5). He was
formed by the spoken Word. So the way Christ is formed in us is not by works of
law, but by the hearing of faith...This shows us that the Christian life is
entirely a matter of grace from beginning to end."
This
destroys our self-righteousness brothers. And then this is what BELIEVER 4 was
talking about this morning...
BELIEVER
4:. Can I interject something here which may be helpful? In the light of what BELIEVER
6 asked, how is Christ formed in us? If we jump into the New Testament about
the preaching of the gospel, and we overlook the fact that Christ the son, in
his obedience to the father, was where all of this was formed in man for us.
Not just the preaching of the word, but Christ being the word lived out, this
is where it happened, no other place, this is where it happened. Because of
what he actually did, and then when we hear this preached that this life was
formed in us in the person of Christ, then, that is the good news.
BELIEVER
2: that takes it out of our hands putting him in that type way.
BELIEVER
4: Amen, because there's so many preachers, who say they preach Christ to you,
but it is really not. Christ didn't
preach, Christ lived it out for us. That is where all of this is formed in us,
Christ and his relationship with the father, and the father living out his life
in the son. This is it, this is the good news.
BELIEVER
6: that is the grace of God
BELIEVER
4: yes it is. It is in the person of Christ first. Once we understand this in
person Christ, Bill Freeman in his book "the supplied life", on April
20th, it talks about then we cooperate with God's operation, the in the middle
voice begins to work out, like him Philippians 2:12,13, it begins to work out
what has already been worked into Christ who is in us. Now we begin to work out, middle voice, what
Christ has already completely finished in us. This is unbelievable, this is
phenomenal. This is the phenomenal. On
page 111, it talks about the middle voice, in the middle voice happens after
Christ lives this out for us as us. This is unbelievable, this needs to be
known. This is the great misunderstanding in Christianity.
BELIEVER
2: it is good for one to have things taken out of their hands. Many times we
have the sense, or many of the sense that they need to work out their salvation
and active voice, but really is a false burden, because in reality it is in the
middle voice. It is good to see that.
BELIEVER
4: once we realize of the cross is delivered us from the ordinances, then we
cannot work out something according to the law anymore, now we are related to
the spirit in us, which we submit to by allowing (letting, and permitting), and
now the spirit is released because we are oriented to the spirit as sons now,
not as servants to the ordinances. And this is where we begin to discover the
"working out." The sons work it out, the slaves try to do something
according to the ordinances. This is the revelation that we get right at this
point, that we are sons releasing the spirit of our father, because now we are
oriented to the father, not to the law of God, but to the love of the father.
Isn't this wonderful! Not to a judge, but to a lover. Amen. So our faith works
by love, doesn't it. So we're working it out, it is an active faith, what is
our the been worked into Christ who is in us.
Brother
Freeman in his "the supplied life" when April 16th, page 107, this
relates back to BELIEVER 6's knowing life, the conscience. It goes right into this then releases us into
the realm of consciousness of him in us which causes us to understand the
"work out." The title for the and a is "helped to the realm of
life." And he says, this was worked into Christ because of his obedience
to the father, and it says for the verse of the day, "because I live, you
will live also." So the whole
section in here really opens up a brother Diego were sharing earlier, about
Christ being formed in us, and then God himself is operating in us, it it is
him operating within us. And then when we are conscious of him operating in us
as we are, then we begin to release him operating within us in this is the
"work out." Isn't this
wonderful! This is very good news! If we go into the person of Christ, this is
where we find the life of the middle voice, where Jesus sees the father
working, and as the father works he works. Remember that in the gospel of John,
this is the picture. Isn't that wonderful! Because this is the sinless son of
God, not a slave, but a sinless son who is one with the father, and the father
is working, and as the son he sees the father working the Son releases the work
of the father through himself, and this is why he lived the way he lived and
did the things he did. This is the same one we have in us today. When we have the mind of Christ. In "the supplied life" on April 9
we have the same thing, "a mindset to experience Christ." It talks
about the supplied mind and asks, where is Christ in this? What is Christ in
this? You know, gaining Christ, the inner operation of God. It wouldn't be fair at this point to not only
said that the cross is delivered us from the world, and from ourselves, and the
devil, and from ordinances, but we got into earlier, but now because wherein
John 5:17-19, or Jesus said that he couldn't do anything of himself but only
that which he sees the father do, that those are the things that he does. The thought after that when he says the
father loves the son and shows him all things that he himself does, and he will
show him greater works than these that you may marvel. Then in verse 22 it says, "but the
father judges no man but has committed all judgment unto the son." And
right there we have also been delivered from not only the ordinances, but we
have also been delivered from the judge because when Christ died the judge died
who evaluates according to the law. This
is what we are receiving, deliverance from our judgmental attitude, our
self-righteousness, because when Christ became the judge, as it says, "the
father has given all judgment to the son," when Christ died not only for
our sins, but died as the judge, this is where we are released from the
conscience that judges everything, and we are filled with the love of a father
who loves everyone. Hallelujah
And
you know how we sing that song there's power in the blood
There
is power, power, wonderworking power
In
the blood of the lamb
Why
is there wonderworking power? It is not only that Jesus died first sins, it is
the Jesus died as the judge. And now we are not only forgiven, but we get to
forget, we don't even have to evaluate according to the law anymore, and be
self-righteous and judge each other, now we have a relationship with the
father, the love of God is shed abroad in our heart by the spirit. This is the
out working, the Holy Spirit shedding abroad the love of God in our hearts for
everyone.
BELIEVER
2: for reference this verse, that "the father gave all judgment to the son
and the son judges no one" but the son went to the cross and ended all of
that. Hallelujah there's power in the blood.
The accuser of the brethren is gone. That's amazing.
BELIEVER
4: this is where the blood the sprinkled on our conscience on the mercy seat.
It's not just the shed blood of the brazen altar, this is the sprinkled blood
the mercy seat right on our hearts in the innermost place. In the seed of judgment has become a seat of
love of the father of glory from the throne.
This is where the ruling and reigning in life happens. "And he
showed man a River of the water of life crystal clear flowing from the throne.
BELIEVER
2: There is ministration of righteousness, instead of the ministration of
death.
BELIEVER
4: and is imparting the righteousness to us as a gift, clothing us.
BELIEVER
3: would you like to share burden for this night?
BELIEVER
2: actually or were talking about is pretty amazing and my burden has been
taken away.
BELIEVER
4: yes there is no burden here; there is a release of the spirit.
BELIEVER
3: acceptance of what Christ did for us, this is the whole thing, the
acceptance of the finished work of Christ. The details of how this works out,
this is where we are now.
BELIEVER
2: I to say from my own mind, that it is
so easy to hold this concept of the finished work of Christ only in the legal
and outward realm. And we talked about
tonight, about how it has actually been formed in us, and that is also finished
work.
BELIEVER
3: brother Bill Freeman relates these truths to John Wesley and George
Whitefield and he says, “that is why the spirit worked in such a dynamic way in
their day.
“But
certainly religion is quite another thing, They know by experience that true
religion is a union of the soul with God, a real participation of the divine nature,
the very image of God drawn upon the soul, or, in the apostle’s phrase, it is
‘Christ formed within us.’ Briefly, I know not how the nature of religion can
be more fully expressed, than by calling it a divine life.”
BELIEVER
2: I will interject here a little bit, in this relates to what the Lord is done
within different members of the body, so BELIEVER 3, this morning read some
things about George Whitfield and went to the house looking for the book by
George Whitfield. Today while I was in the library I was strolling through the
couple thousand books that they have in the religious section and I picked out
the Journal of George Whitfield without any communication with BELIEVER 3, and
I never had any interest in George Whitfield before, but I describe that today.
It's the Lord's mercy.
BELIEVER
3: in the book of George Whitfield, he shares, “God showed me, that the true
was union of the soul with God in Christ formed in us.” It's good to talk about
union and the soul with God like Jeanne Guyon talks about, and we correlated
with what she says, “. A ray Divine light shined upon my soul, and that from
that moment on I knew I was to be a new creature.” The last part of the book of
Bill Freeman we see the missing piece. Because we say, “well everything is done
in the spirit, we have a chance to enjoy Christ.” On page 191: this is not
something I like to share but it's very important to point out, he talks about
nullifying Christ.
“In the New Testament there are many words
that reveal to us that the church is Christ, but there are also many words and
examples that show us that we can nullify Christ and the reality of the church.
If we are persons who do not handle Christ and experience Him, then we will nullify
the reality of what we say we believe. When Christ Himself is replaced by
anything, then the church no longer expresses Him.
In other words, does the true issue, he says,
“if Christ can be nullified and experience, then surely the church life can be
nullified also.”
“This word from Paul in Galatians is helpful
to all of us. It perhaps helps to explain our experiences in the past, when
under certain situations, we felt like the Lord was virtually absent from a
place. The atmosphere of freedom was lost. Christ was nullified. This word will
also preserve us as we go on together in the church life in the coming years.
May we always maintain the blood bought atmosphere of freedom for the full
enjoyment of Christ that the church would be in the reality of Christ.”
I feel we cannot separate the finished work
of Christ. I reviewed some things and another book, if we look at the
grammatical notation Greek, the of the different tenses: Aorist imperative,
Aorist imperative middle, Aorist imperative passive, then the Aorist
infinitive, passive, middle, active, then the subjunctive which also has an
active, middle, and passive. Then there
is the future active, middle, passive, future participle active middle, middle,
and passive. In the present passive middle participle, perfect is indicative
and participle in active and middle. In other words the Lord himself, by the
father's working in the son by the spirit of the voice and the way that no one
has a chance to manage it, but only the spirit of the living God. The Scriptures is a book of mystery. So the spirit reveals these things to the
sons who are willing to play with the father wants to play.
BELIEVER 4: did you say that the son, or a
son in the son.
BELIEVER 3: it's just the son. If we are in
the son we have life we are not in the son we do not have life. We can say that
we are part of Christ, part of his body which is the church, one with Christ.
So when we talk about the three voices active middle and passive and we go to
how the Scripture was written and how the Lord Jesus handle this, we are
completely nothing but want to play with but Christ has done.
BELIEVER 4: you am nothing and everything,
both
BELIEVER 3: yes and without him, we are
nothing even if we have the knowledge of the structure of the verb, and the
different grammatical forms of the verb. So we have a chance to have the logos
of Scripture, but without the life of the son of God active and present an
infinite what the Lord is doing, we are
zero.
BELIEVER 2: maybe someone has received the
seed and they are a believer positionally, but they are a deceived believer
because there are stuck in this active and passive mentality.
BELIEVER 3: this is what we're talking about
being formed according to the law.
BELIEVER 4: like you said if they receive the
seed, but they only received it in their mind, and not in the good soil, which
is the heart, there is no way that it can germinate because it lacks moisture,
and heat, and the warmth of the father's love.
So they can mentally believe it objectively, but unless they have
received it subjectively, then it is not going to bear fruit just like the
parable of the sower. Like the seed that
was sown among the thorns, they received it joyfully, but unless it falls on
the good ground it is not going to bring forth fruit.
BELIEVER 3: no one knows the father except
the son, and no one knows the son except the father. I could talk to you for
the last three years from the perspective of seeing things from the father,
that the son is to have responsibility, and the son says I cannot handle this,
but if we go to the position of the son, that the son is immature, the son is
just to take some part and go enjoy this life. This is the missing point
Christianity, because everyone forgets about the son, but they forgot to talk
about the father accomplished everything in the son.
BELIEVER 4: is the other part, “and to whom
the son chooses to reveal the father.” In Matthew 11:25-27. Because it is the
son’s choice to reveal the father. The sons choice is in the middle voice. “You have not chosen me, I have chosen you.”
So the relationship between the father and son is beautiful, that they only
know the each other, but then said that there is an opportunity for the son to
choose to reveal the father to different ones. This is where we have hope.
Praise the Lord! Because that would just be isolated just between the father and
the son. No one else would know. In English that would be a compound complex
sentence. A compound, because there's the father the son, and complex because
the son chooses to reveal the father to others. Compound complex.
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