Fellowship in the Household of Faith
07/18/2013
BELIEVER 7: (From E.W. Kenyon Two
kinds of Righteousness, Chapter Titled: Righteousness Restored)
RIGHTEOUSNESS RESTORED
“UNIVERSAL Sin Consciousness is the parent of all the religions of the
earth. Man has ever sought to rid himself of the sense of guilt and sin. Sin
Consciousness was born at the Fall. It was manifested in Adam’s fear to meet
God and his desire to cover his nakedness. The Revelation of God and the
development of that Revelation have been to one end-to restore Righteousness to
man.
The meaning of Righteousness in this sense is the ability to stand in
the presence of God without the sense of sin, guilt, or inferiority. It also
includes the legal relation of a son, and fellowship with the Father God. When
Adam sinned he instantly lost fellowship with Jehovah and the ability to
approach Him. This Sin Consciousness has robbed man of his faith and filled him
with a sense of unworthiness that dominates human consciousness today.
Now the problem is this: Has God provided a Redemption that will take
away this Sin Consciousness and permit man to come into His presence now and
stand there as Jesus did? If God could do that, then faith is restored, for the
great enemy of faith is the sense of unworthiness. Theology has failed to
interpret the plan of Redemption in such a manner as to remove this Sin
Consciousness from the minds of those who accept Christ.
In fact, most of the ministers who are classed among the orthodox,
continually preach sin instead of Righteousness, and keep their congregations
under condemnation rather than lead them out into liberty where faith can
function. I have come to see that the basis of real faith is to let the
Christian know that Righteousness has been restored to him. In job 33:26 is a
prophecy that is very striking. It is a picture of the New Birth.
I can give you only one verse: “He prayeth unto God, and he is
favorable unto him, So that he seeth his
face with joy: And lie restoreth unto man his righteousness.” There are three facts here. First, man prays and God
hears his prayer. Second, “He seeth his face with joy"-restored
fellowship. Third, "He restoreth unto man his righteousness.” In these three statements we have the result of
a complete Redemption. In another chapter
I am going to show you the different types of Righteousness that have been
granted to man down through the ages, until God in Christ restored this
perfect, God satisfying Righteousness to us. The book of Romans is a story of
how God restored Righteousness to us on the ground of faith in Jesus Christ. It
is the great master- drama of humanity.
In Rom. 1:16-17, Paul declares: “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of
Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth ;
to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein (in this gospel) is
revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But
the righteous shall live by faith.” This Righteousness that is revealed is the
Righteousness that the believer receives in Christ.”
BELIEVER 4: before you pray and dismiss, what touched your heart
regarding this portion.
BELIEVER 7: I enjoy this history of how God restored our righteousness
on the basis of faith in Jesus Christ. This for us needs to give us, many times
a sorrow (like a repentant sorrow) and many times a satisfaction that we live
by faith in nearness to Him. Thank you
Holy Father because this restores to us everything that we need in everything
that we have to pass through in life, and it gives us the food that we need to
continue forward in Your way.
(BELIEVER 6 is going to continue)
BELIEVER 6: (Loosely translated from Guyon’s A Simple Method of Prayer). We want to go to a deeper level of
experience with the Lord, that is to say, a deeper level of prayer. Some
describes this deeper level as an experience of faith and quietness. Some people describe it as the prayer of
simplicity, and I prefer to call it by this latter description, which means
that prayer has become a habit of one’s being. (One has been accustomed to
prayer)….and wait in quietness (calmness) while we being to sense the presence
of the Lord. That these two attitudes (prayer and quite waiting) have become
part of your life…if this is true, one will discover that it is much easier to come
to the Lord, and to know His presence…but I want to remind you all again that
what has been previously written (by Guyon) is for those who are recently
coming to know Christ. We will come to
know that prayer is the real and the true way to find God…Having said that I
would like to encourage you all that you have a believing heart from this
moment onward. You should not be
discouraged, because when a person is seeking the Lord there are always
difficulties in the way in order to enter into a deeper relationship with
Him. Now after these words, we see a new
level of prayer, and we will begin to sense the presence of the Lord. We should not try to let our mind think, or
try to say anything, or try to do anything. While we have a sense of the
presence of the Lord we should just remain there. Remain there exactly as we
are. Amen.
BELIEVER 7: BELIEVER 6, can you share the practical application of
everything that you have shared in relation to what you are living in
Ecuador.
BELIEVER 6: when one knows the God that we serve and the God that we
know, we don’t need to reason or think, we only need to ask God to give us His
presence, so that we can talk to Him, and tell Him all of the things that
disturb us. And so what I live right now
is, May the will of the Lord be done and not my will. He is the one with the last word in all
things. The only thing that I know is
that God is always working…in different ways with each brother. So the only thing that we need to do is thank
Him for blessings, for tests, for life, because despite all of the problems
that we have, God has given us life, and this is what is important.
BELIEVER 4: let me say something before you all go. The important thing in all that the Spirit is
doing is that we have consciousness of the will of the Father. It is not the portion of one brother, or the
portion of another, because in reality our portion is Christ. This portion which is Christ in the brothers
is the food of the Father. In other
words, if we do the will of the Father, we have food for ourselves and for the
Father, and for others. This only comes
by the Spirit. My prayer is that you and
BELIEVER 7 have spiritual eyes to be able hear the voice of the Father
concerning what is happening in Ecuador and what is happening here.
BELIEVER 6: Amen
BELIEVER 9: it is such a joy to hear how Jesus is working with you
there in Ecuador, and heaven will tell what all has been accomplished in making
that trip and letting your light shine.
I was thinking when BELIEVER 6 mentioned in her prayer, thanking God for
trials, and this pleases the heart of God when He sees that His child is
trusting Him through the dark times as well as the joyful times. Because trials can only come to God’s
children as the Father allows them to come. So His will is always good for us
because He has promised that we would be strengthened, be made stronger have
gone through them. It seems like in the
midst of trials we are more able to hear what the Lord is wanting to say to us. When He speaks to us when we are in a place
where we have no control, God is the only one that can be what we need…when He
speaks to us in those times, there comes a wonderful treasure when we pass
through it, when He has brought us through.
BELIEVER 8: I was made to think of Philippians with what we were
sharing, you know, where we are pressing toward the mark of the prize of the
High Calling of God in Christ Jesus…and then just a little more, in the next
verse it says, “Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk therein”…that
is what I thinking, and it is telling us that we become examples, and we go
forward with this resting and this hearing with what God wants to tell us, and
that is where I need to rest and hear what God wants to tell…so that we can get
that more, and more, and more. We have
enjoyed the teaching, with what BELIEVER 7 has shared concerning the
righteousness, and BELIEVER 6, and we are praying for them.
BELIEVER 4: if someone feels to continue with the Lord has been opening
up tonight that would be really good. We are ready for whoever by the spirit is
ready to continue moving on with what the Father is working with us.
BELIEVER 8: we have dessert. We want to thank you for your
encouragement, for praise to God for his mercy and love, the blood of Jesus,
the drawing of the Holy Spirit, and your prayers last time when my
granddaughter came, BELIEVER 9 shared with you that we had an interruption, and
we ask for prayer. She was in such pain, she was trying not to cry but tears
were rolling. So she was so thankful for the prayer. She went home, and I think
that you pray for my son too. And the next day they both awakened feeling like
new people. Praise the Lord! She stopped and tonight just before we met with
you, and she said, "oh, please tell them thank you." You know that is
a great encouragement that the Lord heard and answered our prayers, and BELIEVER
4 the Lord led you to pray. It is a wonderful thing to actually see the answer
to encourage survey. She is young and she is trying to learn to walk with the
Lord, which you know, leads me to think about what was in the Daily Open Windows and July 15. This
touched me so much because it is telling us how we are to be, very carefully,
it is that of Corinthians, "we have stopped evaluating others from a human
point of view...“The love of Christ constrains us; because we thus judge, that
one died for all, therefore all died; and He died for all, that they which live
should no longer live unto themselves, but unto Him”; “Henceforth know we no
man after the flesh." So you know, as humans we are prone to look at
others, as well as like BELIEVER 7 was talking about righteousness and
unworthiness, but sometimes to our detriment, and it doesn't really bring glory
to God, we look at others, and we see them after the flesh rather than trying
to see the spirit and in them. And we are all on a different pathway. We are
all going upward, and sometimes those that are going upward get down, they are
down and they cannot get up. And that is when we are to see them for the spirit
that is in them, and help them by prayer and not by criticism. So I am just
trying to keep that in mind, and asked the Lord to help that I honor him with
my thought life, my looking at others, and looking at myself as well. Thank you
for your prayers, it was really wonderful and blessed her, and my son said that
her, "Dad said that we have a legion of prayer warriors on our side."
Praise the Lord.
BELIEVER 4: well BELIEVER 8 and BELIEVER 9 I will attempt to say
something to both of you regarding what your shared and what regarding how the
Lord answered our prayers, and how the Lord continues to keep moving with each
one of us. And I feel to put on the table something that the Lord is caused to
burn in our hearts. First I'm going to say this, the Lord wants that we stand
as one new man, in other words, the fight against the enemy by faith. And this
faith is just our conqueror, our victor Christ Jesus, flowing out of our
hearts. And He stands in us, and
He will demonstrate His victory if we abide in Him, and He abides in us, everything is according to His will; his will be done. The other
part that I enjoyed is that it is not only the witness with others, in other
words we have the witness of the Spirit,
the fellowship with people who do not even know, this is a really good thing.
The other thing is that I really enjoy day by day the unity that is starting to
open up with both of you, BELIEVER 8 and BELIEVER 9, regarding the same spirit
that is joined together in the fellowship, regarding the sharing. For example,
(in the past) I have been touched with this message of not knowing anyone
according to the flesh, when Paul says, "if we knew Jesus according to the
flesh, we don't know Him anymore
that way." In other words the Spirit
is starting to work really good things with us. And the enemy tries to
attack us so that we will not keep going in a way that the Spirit desires that we go. I feel that
the warfare we experience corporately, for example, warfare to meet, to join
together, but it is worthy. The difficulties of this age are nothing in
comparison with what the Lord prepared from before the foundation of the world,
in the Father. So blessed
sisters, I feel that we are more day by day tuned in, and the same Spirit, in other words we are not just
sitting in sharing. BELIEVER 7 shared some things that showed us that we need
to be tuned in with what the righteousness of God is, so that we do not feel
guilty but allow the blood of Christ do what it needs to do daily with us. When
BELIEVER 6 talked about what it means to be still before God, waiting, this is
part of our living and desiring that the Lord would emerge out of our
circumstances, emerge out of our living. And He presents a living testimony to us, so that it is not that we
just join and share only things that we are reading, but things that we are
living. In other words, thanks to our Father
for opening up some things, and continually getting to us daily the
dealing of the Spirit to
increase the measure of Christ in us, so that Christ can grow in us. And this
is a good thing. In other words precious sisters, the Spirit of the Lord is helping us more and more to show us where we
need to go. And this is just a start. In other words, if someone has the
feeling to keep going, keep going. The fellowship is open.
BELIEVER 8: well we have missed hearing a little from BELIEVER 5.
BELIEVER 5: and one sense, I do not sense a burden of anything, whereas
sometimes that is the case. Are there any desires that people have, different
things that they are trusting the Lord for that may be brought to the table
that might stir up some sharing.
BELIEVER 8: but some of the things that have been share tonight it
brought the Scripture to mind, "but where shall wisdom be found, where is
the place of understanding?" And then over here it says, "and then he
said to man, behold fear the Lord, that is wisdom. And to depart from evil is
understanding."
BELIEVER 5: well when you say that it makes me think of our brother
Jesus who exhibits the wisdom that got brought up, and He also exhibits the understanding. And when I think of the devil approaching him
and trying to tempt him to operate like the first parents did, Adam and Eve, to
act like they did, and how He just
resisted the devil. He understood what was going on, and He turned to the father and He said, "Man shall not live by
bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."
Isn't that wonderful that He never
succumbed to the adversary. And we now have Christ's Spirit, we have the spirit
of wisdom and the spirit of understanding. Wonderful.
BELIEVER 4: well I am just going to start with something that we are
talking about in the fellowships before, but I'm going to try to put two points
together that the Lord has started to open the last fellowships, and I know
that the Spirit is going to open
something really good tonight. And these (past few) days, on one side I
reviewed the Scripture, on the other side I reviewed what True Christianity
is, by Johann Arndt. And I also reviewed three different volumes regarding the
history of this country (US) that were collaborated by Peter Marshall and David
Manuel. When I see the Lord working with us in the way that BELIEVER 5 has
shared (in the past), how we need to first go to the book of Genesis and review
how we are created in the image and likeness of God, and in True
Christianity, Arndt starts with Chapter 1, "showing what the image of
God and man is", and then chapter 2, "of the fall of Adam", but
chapter 3 touched me a lot because he gives the big difference between what a
man created in Christ is, and what a man and the old Adam is. But when I
reviewed the history of this country, I feel surprised, not just reading
different volumes of this country of how the Pilgrims and Puritans came to this
country, and how in the first years there is a warfare that everyone had to
experience, for the word of God to continue and for a new nation to be
established under God, and to allow the Spirit
of God, the Holy Spirit, working our hearts and the different stages and
circumstances. I have enjoyed many things concerning what has happened with us,
because I feel that the Spirit of
the Lord does not stop going forward and conforming us to the image of the
firstborn of God, and to return this love to the father in the different
generations. And when I see how this is worked out throughout the different
years, and I see the warfare that is still going on, and everything is going
on, we can see that the expression that the Lord wants, on one side is
corporate, and on the other side it is according to our (individual)
willingness to go forward with Him and
His leading, and I will complete
everything in us. One of the authors (Marshall or Manuel) talks about what
happened with (Charles) Finney, he shares some things that correlate to what we
are supposed to be if we are open to God to do whatever he wants to do. He
writes, "to Finney, Original Sin is a deep-seated but voluntary interest,
and all sense consists and selfishness, and all holiness and virtues are
opposite of selfishness." The people who came to establish a new nation
under God knew the difference between what it means to turn our hearts to God,
or keeping our own lives without God. The author says, "it is simple to
explain this, Jesus was the personification of selfless love. And man has a
fallen creature was by nature the opposite." In other words, when I see
how the people at 200 years ago talked about how man is falling, how he is
completely corrupt... When I see the state of human beings today, we are in a
state of maturity regarding the nature Satan in us, more and more in these
days. If the founding fathers, that the people of God lived and saw what
happened with the human beings, day by day, we are going to see two different
grounds moving on. In other words the warfare has not ended, it is still a
warfare today. And then he says, "at the cross of Jesus all were welcome:
Brethren, Calvinist..."... I can say Recovery, Baptist, anyone. But our
attitude we have the spirit of Christ, and the first thing that happens when a
new believer has the Spirit of
Christ is that his attitude towards his fellow man changes. In other words, where do we see this,
"love God with all your heart, with all your mind, with all your soul, and
love your neighbor as yourself." We go to the point that we can see our
unworthiness on one side, to be able to move on by the Spirit of the Lord, and on the other to see the riches of this
firstborn Son of God to turn our
hearts to the Father. And then
he says, "unless a person receives this divine love, a spontaneous act of
this agape love, selfless love.... It was not the real faith at all." This
has put me in pieces. Because BELIEVER 5 has told me in the last few months,
"in the moment that we break the rule of love," and I am going to say
divine love... And I'm going to address this to Christians, born anew
believers. In the moment that we receive the Spirit of Christ, and we do not allow, or we had legally stop the Spirit of God working in our hearts by
faith, because we have a mind that betrays us from allowing that He go on and take all of us, Johann
Arndt in Chapter 3 makes a great description of what is the new man, and what
is the old man. And he gives many details of both sides. In other words, if we
just asked the Spirit of the
Lord open us we can see like a spiritual x-ray where we are. How much of Christ
we have, or how much we do not have? If we see this with the Spirit of the Lord, we are going to
feel full of repentance or I lack of moving on the way that the Father desires. Ardnt also shares,
"if anyone actually attempts to live in daily repentance, he is going to
know how hard it is. How difficult it is." And I'm going to say this one
more time because this is a warfare with BELIEVER 5, and I will put myself in
us. Because living in daily repentance is the same words the brother Loren Helm
used, "to allow moment by moment the Holy Spirit to show us what is in our
hearts." Today I feel completely unfit, out of shape regarding what the Spirit of the Lord is to us, this
wonderful treasure that we have in Christ Jesus. And other words to just see
how the Father's love is a love
that melts us and continues to bless us day by day, and gives us this
fellowship where we meet together each Wednesday and Sunday and whenever else
the Spirit leads us, and we see
how the Lord emerges in any circumstance, and we feel how blessed we are as
sons of God. Abba, Father. Thank
you Father. I am just going to
say some small things, I feel sisters, the BELIEVER 8 and BELIEVER 9 that I
knew one year and some months ago are not the same sisters that I know right
now. For me this is such a blessing. The BELIEVER 3 that I began to know 3 1/2
years ago, and this fellowship in the Spirit,
there such a difference. And BELIEVER 5 who I met one year ago, and we keep
going forward in the midst of the difficulties, and we keep going with this
love God has put in our hearts, well I have a chance to say, How is this Father. How is it that the love of His Father continues to work with
sinners, and keeps working to go through with us. In other words brothers and
sisters we have a chance to see how the Father loves us, and that He
chose us that He's unworthy
vessels would carry His glory,
and earthen vessels. We need that this Father
empty us more and more so that this glory would bring us unto the
measure of the firstborn Son of
God. O Father. I feel completely unworthy in all that he
continues to do, even with the difficulties that I experience naturally that
are more intense than what I've experienced in the last 12 years, every day is
more difficult to follow the Lamb wherever He goes. But how great is this Father and this Christ, and the Spirit, to make available to gain more day by day with the Father prepared from the foundation of
the world. In other words brothers, I just put my heart out and this, and I
think day by day, how did this Father choose
us? And when we see what we are, O father. Just with your eyes we can see how
lovely you are. Anyone who feels to can keep going, if not I am just going to
put more fire on the table.
BELIEVER 5: well, would anyone like to taste a little bit of milk and
honey? That special diet in the promised
land.
BELIEVER 3: yes, yes, yes. I love milk and I love honey. I really love
honey.
BELIEVER 5: well, it is a real balanced diet, in terms of milk and
honey. When I was younger I used to go out with a gal and ballet, and she used
to eat cottage cheese and honey. It kept her weight just right and gave her
enough energy so that she could do what she did. I think of the Lord, the
spirit of the Lord in us, the one who is actually gone ahead of us, and
actually gone into the territory that Adam and Eve never did and totally obeyed
the Father as a human being and
accomplished the full salvation, he
accomplished, well I would just say that He went through the whole turf of this promised land. He went to
the whole thing and repossessed it, and never submitted to the adversary in it
and accomplished everything that was needed in order to secure that land. And
so it is so beautiful to me that when we come out of Egypt, as far as in the
Old Testament typology, and then we begin to head to the wilderness with the
goal of the promised land and our site if you will, that when we have this
revelation of receiving Christ in us, not just looking at Christ as a disciple,
following Him around and
enjoying the miracles that He does,
healing the sick, raising the dead, casting out demons. Kind of like the
children of Israel had a lot of activities going on while they were wandering
around there for 40 years. Isn't this something when we actually receive Christ
as our wisdom and understanding, you know having the spirit of wisdom and
understanding, and once we began to feed upon Christ in our lives than we begin
to experience taking possession of our possessions. So I would just kind of put
that on the table just on a preliminary level, because the goal that used to be
out in front of us has now been accomplished by Christ and He is now in us, and He has already been appointed as heir
of a of everything, and we have him and us and he is more than able to with us
go ahead and take all the land with us. Enjoying this taking of the land
together, us with him. So I'll just put that on the table on a preliminary
level just to open. And just thinking of BELIEVER 4, the settling of America,
recognizing that the founding fathers shared our nature and our propensities,
and on the other hand they realized that this love of the father in us for one
another was the way to go, and how to experience that as this new land is being
settled. So I relate to it in the person of Christ who is in us as us being the
land that is being settled.
BELIEVER 3: as us being a land that is being settled.
BELIEVER 5: yes settled by Christ. Not only that he has an individual
who finished the work and obeyed the Father
to the end, but now on the Incorporated level with all the land's
potential, all of us, now He has
entered into us, and now He is
really beginning to wrap up the bigger picture in terms of totally possessing
the entire inheritance with us. And I am just interested in hearing other
people's thoughts on this, because this is what is before us. This is what is
within us, this is what we are up to right now. And there is plenty happening.
BELIEVER 4: if someone feels the keep going, keep going, because BELIEVER
5 has started to put some point on the table, and before this is opened up we
need to address how this all is worked out if we are open. This is what we're
all experiencing right now, some more and some less, but it is a warfare. Some
brothers experienced more difficulties than others in the way that we are
going, because of the intensity. The difficulties are according to the
relationship you have and the measure of Christ that you have (anyone).
BELIEVER 3: I like to share little bit, or maybe not share, maybe I will
just ask questions. So Christ settling the land, I am just trying to get the
Old Testament picture this first. Like the children of Israel, the new
generation, Joshua and Caleb crossing the Jordan, and beginning to defeat the
opposing nations and taking the land that was promised to Abraham and to his
descendents. (Yes). And us of being that land, like where it says, "ask of
Me and I will give You the nations as Your inheritance." Or like,
"the riches of the glory of His inheritance
in the saints." Because I have heard that Jesus is the promised land. I've never heard that we are (the promised
land), but it makes sense because, kicking out the enemies, there are no
enemies in Christ to kick out. So it makes more sense that we are the land, and
that it is Christ in us overcoming, and conquering, and kicking out these
enemies, then that Christ is the land with enemies and devils in Him, that doesn't make any sense at
all. So that was my question to, clarify that.
BELIEVER 5: you are made to elaborate on that a little bit to
differentiate? (Yes) the condition of the first parents was what it was, and
all the descendents... Terrible, fallen humanity, you know for 4000 years. And
in Christ shows up, born from Mary, and He
takes on humanity as the sinless one, and then He begins to live and grow as a human being that is made in the
image and likeness of God, and He grows
up and goes through 30 years and then He
takes on a ministry and accomplishes everything that He did on our behalf, all the way to
the end. He obeys the Father and
never submits to the adversary, and totally re-creates human beings, how they
should have been back in Genesis 1 and 2. When He goes into death, a covenant death, and lays His life down so that we can actually
inherit everything He accomplished.
Praise the Lord. As well as dying for the sins of the world, paying the penalty
of death for sins. So once that has been accomplished when He enters into death, burial,
resurrection, and ascension into heaven as a man seated at the right hand of
the Father, and Acts 2:33, is
given the Holy Spirit as a man, and then the promise that He made to His disciples, "go and
tarry in Jerusalem until ye be endued with the Spirit (the promise of the Father),
and then be witnesses unto Me in
Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and in the uttermost parts of the world." So we
see that in the book of action outward thing, they are going into the world
now, and they have all kinds of power to do these things that Jesus did when He was on the earth, by sight. But
what is really going on, inside of them Christ is actually taking the turf in
them, they are the land. Christ went through the wilderness, obeying the father
through all of man's craziness for 4000 years, and He goes in and goes through the wilderness of the sinless one, and
then at Pentecost He comes back,
like in the promised land, crosses the Jordan and He enters into us, whoever, and He begins to bring and the reality of everything that He accomplished, all the works that
were finished from before the foundation of the world, and He begins to work that out with
whoever will allow Him in their
life. Whoever will, not the people going in like Jordan into the promised land
and driving out the Giants, it's whoever will allow Christ into them, to allow Him to come in bringing the abundant
life and Him to drive out the
enemies, and Him to take a
blessing, and us to enjoy the victory with him. Praise the Lord. So in one sense this would be very
unfamiliar to us, is going into this promised land, unfamiliar turf, on the
other hand when we are with Him who has already been here ahead of us then it
is familiar to Him. So here we
are paradoxically in an unfamiliar way, but yet with the one who is very
familiar and acquainted with the land, so we have peace in the midst of
craziness. We have a provision in the midst of a threat of lack of provision.
And when we are with Christ together, and we are enjoying becoming one with Him and one with one another, we are
experiencing the reality of the real promised land, this One New Man.
BELIEVER 3: that is pretty good. I have never heard before that we are
the promised land, but it is starting to make sense. And then it talks about in
the book of Hebrews, a lot it talks about entering into rest. And there are a
lot of pictures from the Old Testament in the book of Hebrews, about crossing
the Jordan, I don't think it mentioned crossing the Jordan, but it does mention
coming in to rest, but that is not necessarily us trying to get, or trying to
enter into something, but Christ entering into us who has accomplished
everything, which the book of Hebrews completely portrays as him having
finished the work and having set down at the right hand of God, and as coming
forward and the hand and turning away from ourselves, and looking into Jesus.
(The author and finisher of our faith)
BELIEVER 5: and He is the faithful one, and the neat thing is, is that He is in us, and He is taking over and being formed in us, like it says in Galatians 4:19. He is being formed and this. And I think the parallel would be Ephesians 2:14-15 where we see Christ actually taking on our flesh, and in this case portrayed as the sheer and the Gentile that are at odds with one another, the warfare that exists. You know the land is hostile land, hostile, we human beings are divided by the devil. They are hostile. When Jesus comes into the human beings, which means that He comes into the humans which happens to be, part of the humans are Jews, and the other ones are Gentiles. So He comes in and He does this amazing warfare. He comes in and when He is crucified, He literally knocks out all the Jews, the knocks out all the Gentiles. So He has killed both armies. He has done a wonderful job, He has literally taken everybody out. It wasn't like one guy kills the other one and he gets the victory, the other one dies and the other one lives. He goes, "no, I am going to take you all out."I am going to have mercy on everybody, like it says in Romans. I'm going to put everybody in unbelief, and I am going to have mercy on everybody. So when He comes forth from the dead, He is the fulfillment of the picture Joshua and Caleb that had another spirit. Because Joshua was a Jew, and Caleb was a gentile, a Kenizzite, so there is the Jew in the Gentile in the Old Testament typology, and so here's Jesus: the personification of the spirit that Joshua and Caleb had been Himself. So when He comes forth from the grave, He has already entered into death, gone into hell (into Beelzebub's prison), preaches to all the captives, and He is actually captured them took them out of there. And when He goes through this, there are all kinds of people that rose from the dead. So He was so excited, that when He came forth from the dead and He came out there and He breathed on His disciples, and He gave them the Spirit that has already been through death, burial, and resurrection, it has been down on the prison, right in the bowels, and He goes ahead and gives them that spirit. Wow, to have that awareness of that kind of victory, we are getting ready to take some turf here.
BELIEVER 2: you were running well, who hindered you from obeying the
truth? Something had broken in and interrupted their spiritual race. This is
extremely serious and it disturbed ball to the depths of his being. It seems
that in the case of the Galatians it is again the natural man. But this time in
a realm of natural emotions. They seem to have been of that temperamental
Constitution which corresponds to Christ's words in the parable about the seed
falling into the shallow soil. The seed was received quickly and earnestly but
did not go on to produce the harvest. There are some people who make an
enthusiastic start in their way, and they make quite a stir about it, but then
did not go steadily on. So it is sort of saying like sometimes there are people
who initiate really strong Christianity and what not, and they have a really
big impulse when they first get in and then afterwards they are just like,
"oh, yeah....." and all the excitement is gone. Like the people who
going to receive blessings but when the blessing stop they leave. It is more
like, "oh, we want the grace of God but we don't want to be
committed," per say. And then why, because they live in their own feelings
and emotions and these changed. So it was because people were unstable in
themselves, like they didn't know what was going on, where they did but it was
just a constant change of opinion, or emotions. "Clearly then, if you and
I are going to persevere into the and we must have a greater power than that of
our emotional life. The only hope is that it may be true of us as it was of
Paul, "the love of Christ constraineth me..." There is all the
difference between the natural and the spiritual, in the matter of love. The
word translated constraineth is the same one as when it says, "man held
Jesus (?)". So it is the love of Christ that should hold or grip us,
conquering our natural emotions." So it is sort of saying that our
emotions are strong, and if we don't allow our emotions to like go away, or to
allow ourselves to be more spiritual than we are natural. Our strength needs to
come from the Lord, and we can only receive that strength when we are coming
from the weakness ourselves. That is when the Lord can hold us.
BELIEVER 8: as we listen, it brings to mind that it is the old man and a
new man. The new man is really the Spirit;
the Holy Spirit has come into our spirit. But the old man is the body and the
soul, and we still are living in that. And so some people as you were saying,
their emotions and their makeup is even handed down in genes. Now we know that
the blood of Jesus and the help of the Holy Spirit can change that, but we
being what we are, made up of habits, a man's or woman's, and we habitually do
things for the way that we react to things is more difficult to change. So I
guess that's where the verse comes, "preset by precept, a little here and
a little there." And by a miracle when someone is totally submitted and
dedicated then immediately, which are few, or if He has chosen someone that He
can make an immediate change. But most of us change a little at a time
and according to our obedience we change better and more quickly and become
more like Him as we obey. But I
believe, new Christians start out, there is a real (difference?) Between the
old man and the new man. The new man in the spirit is born, and the old man is
the body that we live in. So I believe that's where a lot of problems come from
with us, that move along quickly and some, I look at myself at my age and I
think, "My, I should have been where I am at now years ago." But you
know, but I believe that it is according to the truth that we can get in, and
the truth comes through the Word. You know, there is so much in that. It is a
deep mystery, like life and death. Some of us move at a greater speed and can
do more in the kingdom; it truly is a mystery. But we know that God is able if
we give Him what we are to give Him, of ourselves.
BELIEVER 4: I am going say something and
then you can keep going if you have some thoughts regarding what BELIEVER 8
just shared. In the way that the Lord allowed BELIEVER 2 to put on the table
and that he started with the verse that says, "you were running well, who
hindered you from obeying the truth." When we review how the Galatians to
the things, and BELIEVER 8 put on the table, and it is so clear on one side how
this works, I feel that this is (what Austin-Sparks has shared in these days)
like a puzzle that you can put all the pieces together, in July 16th he says,
"with man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
And he mentions Matthew 19-26. And one part he says this, "You have to
live your life and do your work in a sphere of spiritual death where everything
is against spiritual Life, and there is nothing to support you at all, and yet
you go on there in the Lord, and are not swallowed up...." When I see how
this is worked out in the divine life, Brother Austin-Sparks puts it in this
way which is according to my experience, "That is the miracle of Divine
Life working silently. Yours, then, is a life – as is the life of everyone –
set in the presence of the great stone of death, spiritual death. We know it,
and yet we are preserved alive spiritually and we go on. That is the great
miracle. It is the miracle of every day. That is the testimony that God raised
Him from the dead...." In other words for me this is a key point for
anyone to be able to say, 'we are in life, or we are in death.' And then he
goes through with what happened to Paul as described in the letter to the Galatians,
where he received the revelation not from human source, neither was it taught
to him, but he received it by direct revelation. In one part Sparks says that
it is not through a mental apprehension of the truth about God, or the power to
say that I know... Not 'I heard,' or 'I read,' but 'I know.' In other words if
we know this life, if we know that God is working with us it doesn't have
anything to do with our mind, or our reading, what has a chance to help us? It
is just by our experience of this life in us, and that changes everything. For
me that is the password for everything that God is working with us. Because He is not just working with me, but He is working with anyone who is open
and will allow the Holy Spirit to work out whatever He wants to work out now.
BELIEVER 5: well, I would just have some fun
for a moment and say, what do we feel is the difference between the journey,
going through the wilderness (in other words, we are all related to the Lord),
but what is the difference between mainly related to the Lord in the
wilderness, and what is the difference between being related to the Lord in the
promised land? Does anybody have any comments?
BELIEVER 3: this is my thinking from what we
are shared tonight. My understanding in the past, and relating to the Lord in
the wilderness has been, like what Witness Lee would say, that the (wilderness)
is an experience where a believer is in their soul, mainly they are not walking
and abiding in the Spirit, but
they are kind of stuck in their own mind, will, emotions, soulish realm. One brother told me that Satan desires to
keep us in a soulish realm, where we are never entering into the Spirit. And in the promised land, my
understanding the past has been, that's entering into rest, or a relationship
with Christ or we are abiding in Him, and He abiding in us. In our you asked, what's the difference between
relating to the Lord in the wilderness in the promised land, I would say, the
Lord, now (just from what we have shared tonight), the Lord has went through
the wilderness for us, and the Lord has entered into the promised land for us.
In the book of Matthew chapter 4, we have the Lord there for 40 days, being
tempted by Satan in the wilderness, and He
overcame Satan completely.
BELIEVER 5: did you say overcame him, or
wasn't overcome?
BELIEVER 3: wasn't overcome. Like the
children of Israel were, the Lord Jesus was not overcome. So if we could relate
to Him in the wilderness, we
would not be overcome like He was
not overcome. But the problem is that we do not relate to Him in the wilderness, but we picture
just ourselves in the wilderness, like going through some kind of process, "a
wilderness experience," and we just get stuck there. So that is, just from
what we have shared tonight that would be kind of something newer, relating to
the Lord who has went through the wilderness experience instead of just
picturing ourselves in the wilderness. Because you said relating to the
Lord....
BELIEVER 5: and so that is in the
wilderness, now how about the promised land.
BELIEVER 3: the promised land would be like,
that the blessing of Abraham might come....He gets the inheritance. Like where
it says in Revelation chapter 5, "Worthy is the Lamb that has been slain,
to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory,
and blessing...And every creature which is in the heaven and upon the earth and
under the earth, and [those that are] upon the sea, and all things in them,
heard I saying, To him that sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb, blessing,
and honour, and glory, and might, to the ages of ages. And the four living
creatures said, Amen; and the elders fell down and did homage." So
relating to the Lord in the promised land is relating to Him who has overcome. Not just not
being overcome, but to Him who
has overcome. I think....
BELIEVER 4: I'm going to say something that
is beyond just taking a book because this is what we are talking about. It is
taking the Spirit of the Father, and allowing to see what is
the wilderness, and related to the promised land... According to what has been
put on the table tonight. I am first, go to the point of what is the meaning of
dealing with the Lord in the promised land.
Well, if we see the Old Testament and we see the New Testament, we are
going to have two different pictures, but in essence it is just one picture.
When I see the relation of how the Father
deals with the children of Israel on one side, and how he deals with the
firstborn in the New Testament as our inheritance, as our land, we can see that
the desert involves all that we are trying to accomplish, although we try to
accomplish in our own strength. The Father
tried to tell us that we need food that comes from down heaven, but we
don't tolerate the spirit that comes down from heaven, which is manna. We just
want another type of food. When the Lord Jesus came, and He is our food, and He is not only our food, He is the tree of life, He became our
inheritance, our land. He became everything to us. And this food returns to the
Father again. In other words He is the manna that we eat, and we
become the manna that the Father eats.
In other words and we are talking about these things, I just see one picture;
it is the love of the Father to
bring us all as is one expression in all the earth, all what it is. But what I
see in what God is really dealing with us, we can see two parts that God is
dealing with us now, in any believer that is really open. The desert is how God
deals with our souls, in other words dealing with our souls in the way that we
are living. But when we go to the promised land in the Spirit, we go to the middle voice, in the middle voice is, day by
day "the Spirit and the
bride say 'Come'." The Spirit and
the bride say "Come." But are we willing? Are we willing as we go on,
are we willing to go through to His full
inheritance in the saints? Or do we just want some portion of the promised
land? When we see what happened with Joshua and Caleb, all who possessed the
promised land had another spirit. In other words, if we are not in the Spirit of Christ, and the Spirit of this firstborn Son of God, in other words allow Him to get mature in us, mature in us,
we cannot possessed the full nature of Christ who is our promised land, to
return to the Father, in other
words to have the full inheritance as sons. And this is the great warfare being
in the desert, because many were condemned to death in the desert, and they did
not enter into the promised land which is Christ Himself. For me the center (of everything) is just to be conformed
to the image of Christ, because He is
our land, where the Father enjoys
and puts everything in His sons. That is all.
BELIEVER 8: BELIEVER 5? I wonder, this is
just a quick thought on a deep subject you mentioned, the difference between
being in the wilderness in the promised land. So I was thinking in the
wilderness they were wandering not knowing where they were going, but when we
have come through Jesus, the blood of Jesus and the truth of the gospel, we
have reached the destination. Now we have some settling to do, and some moving
around but we know what we are at, and we know we want to stay there. So to me
that is the difference between the wilderness in the promised land.
BELIEVER 5: I like it. I am thinking of our brother Jesus, and I was
talking with BELIEVER 3 earlier today just a little bit, and I shared with him
kind of a funny story. And think I will share with everybody right now, I think
it will stir us up, as far as the difference between the wilderness in the
promised land. We know that there was a lot of people that died in the
wilderness. Only the children entered in with Joshua and Caleb, another spirit.
And so it is kind of interesting, here we see in the New Testament in John
chapter 11 where Lazarus has passed away. He has died, and he is a sinner that
has died, he just died. In his sisters are not very happy about this at all.
They really think that this stinks, this is really bad. Not Jesus has already
had a little bit of it of experience in this raising the dead business, you
know first it was a person that had been dead for a few minutes, and He raised them up. And then another
one has died for a few hours; and now we have a character four days. And then
later on, He as a sinless one is
going to die, He is going to be crucified. To listen to the little story here.
So here is Satan who has got all of these plans going on, killing all these
people. So he goes down the Beelzebub who is in charge of the holding tank
where the souls are that have died. So saying goes down there after Lazarus has
died and he says to the Beelzebub, "hey you know what? I've got things
pretty well worked out here. I have got everything engineered and it looks as
though we are going to have Christ crucified, Jesus of Nazareth
crucified." And Beelzebub goes, "who!" And he goes, "Jesus
of Nazareth." And he goes, "well, a while back He came down here and he got a hold
of... We had this fellow Lazarus down here, we were holding him, He came right in here and took them
out. We couldn't do anything. We could not hold him. This is really bad news.
If He came down here and took
him out, what are we going to do with Him
Himself? We are really going to be in trouble." And so I am just
kind of kidding around here little bit and saying that, it is one thing for sin
is to die, like this wilderness experience. But it is another thing to have the
Son of God who is sinless, to
have Him crucified, to have Him die, and the amazing thing about Him, He penetrates a little bit deeper. He not only goes into death for
us, to take us out of death, but He goes
right into hell and He preaches
to the captives, and He leads
Captivity captive like it says in Ephesians and Peter. And then He comes through that experience and
you breaths is on His disciples
after He has come back from the
dead, and He actually shares of
them His very own spirit which is been through all this stuff, what an
awareness of the victorious life, penetrating the depths of death and hell,
this is incredible. So this is the Spirit
that we have, not just out there dying in the wilderness, and like
Lazarus coming forth from the dead only to die again as a sinner, but we have
the Spirit of Christ, the
sinless one. The one who has now ascended to heaven and is glorified. And we
have His spirit in us, it is His spirit in us that goes ahead and
literally causes us to experience Him as
our promised land, and then Him experiencing
us as His promised land, and
then us as joint heirs together enjoying the whole thing together.
BELIEVER 8: I wanted to mention...twice you have mentioned BELIEVER 5
about Him breathing on His disciples. And that is in John of
course. And I remember the first time I read that and it occurred to me what
was wrapped up in that prayer, that Jesus himself, the very Jesus prayed for us
that day. Because it says, "You have
sent Me into the world, and I
also have sent them into the world... And for their sakes I sanctify Myself but they also might be
sanctified through truth." And this is the part that thrilled me,
"neither pray I for these alone, but for them also that shall believe in Me through their words." That
thrilled me.
BELIEVER 5: you know that reminds me of? He
reminds me of in the book of Revelation at the end, where the Spirit and the bride, they are one and
they say "Come." And then it says, "and let him who hears
say." And then just like as you
were saying, not only just praying for them but for those who here their words,
and then it says, "and let him who hears, and drinks freely of the water
of life." So this is marvelous. This just goes on and on. This land is so big. This land is potentially
as large as all of mankind. Huh? Isn't
this huge. As you were saying earlier the other day, BELIEVER 3, the riches of
the glory of the inheritance of Christ in the Saints... Ephesians 1:18. This is
big. In Romans 8 it says that we inherit God in the Son, and that we are joint heirs with Christ. First heirs of God,
we inherit God, and then joint heirs with Christ. So here is Christ in us, on
the earth within us and He is
going ahead and transforming us, this land, literally driving out the enemies, Himself literally enlarged. As it says
in Ephesians 2:15, it says that He ends
up becoming One New Man, the war
is over, the hostility is done between the Jews and Gentiles, and between all
the males and females, barbarians and Scythians, bondman and freeman,
everybody. Everything has been dealt with at the cross, everybody is dead, all
of the bad relationships that were between the people that were alive are gone,
because no one is alive to maintain the hostility. All of the rules and
ordinances have been nailed to the cross, so there was no other methodology to
try to play games with one another, there is only Christ now, who is all and in
all. Isn't is marvelous! And this is a hope, isn't this our expectation. I
think of you sisters that have had some years of experience and, my God what a
hope we have here. How much turf can be taken before the Lord takes us home?
BELIEVER 4: I feel to say something
regarding what happened regarding this point. The Lord is so rich that he give
us different views to every brother, and the Lord allows that all these points
be put together to see how he is. And then we not just only see the inheritance
in the saints, but we become the inheritance of the saints. We not only see in
here, we become. Because in the moment that a brother opens and says, "I
see this," or "I think that," because the Lord works with anyone
whatever the riches, the unsearchable riches of Christ. This is huge. And the Father points out to us that we need one another in the same way
that we need Him. This is wow.
And I am just going to say some things as how the Lord is dealing with
everything tonight, because it is really progressive with how the Lord is
working with us. I really enjoyed the
sister (from Indiana) sharing tonight, and I feel more and more without the
Lord is joined us, being knit together in love to one another. So I have enjoyed how the Father has enlarged our hearts, our
measure Christ, to strengthen us to go on all the way. It is not about the age
that we have naturally, it is about sharing the same life in the same Spirit. I just say thank you to our Father for this kind of fellowship and
this kind of time sisters, and we really enjoy being together more and more.
And I just feel free because they by day everyone to take care of both of you
and just keep going on, because to keep going on in this way, well sisters we
are going to, but I'm these days we're going to go to the end of the meeting
with both of you. Will and this is
really good. But we need to take care of
both of you in the way that you are with us, because we want you to go a long
way with the Lord. We don't just want a
few times in a few meetings but a long way, the same that I told you about a
year and a half ago. I said the Lord has
a chance to wait many years and many things for both of you.
BELIEVER 8: we thank you for being
thoughtful for us. We are a couple of older gals here who are a little bit
tired. So we probably will retire, we would like to stay with you, it has been
wonderful, but we know that the Lord will help you to carry on, and we will
just go on and rest, and pray for you.
BELIEVER 5: isn't it something, following
the lamb wherever He goes, and He is in us, traveling through our
lives with one another. What an internal traveling. It is amazing isn't it.
BELIEVER 3: this is the real migration.
BELIEVER 5: yes, unless our eyes are open to
this we are quite blinded aren't we?
BELIEVER 3: we have the real traveling, we
have the real works in Christ. There is no such thing, they shouldn't be an
unemployed Christian. We should all have a job, we should all be employed with
the works that God prepared beforehand. And that is pretty amazing.
BELIEVER 5: well it is kind of funny that
unless we recognize that it is the Father
is the one that is primarily doing the work, in the Son who is in us, He is there and He is unemployed. So what we are
supposed to be doing is taking Him out
of unemployment. It is a lot different than we think. We think, "we are
busy for God." God goes, "Oh no.
Why don't you receive My Son,
His Spirit who is one with Me,
and I'm going to continue to do what I do all the time in My house, because I have invited you
home into My house, and I take
care of the whole thing. So if you are in My house," this is where the kingdom of God is, this is where
the promised land is, it is right in the Father's house, and He says,
"I am going to do everything through My Son in you." It is a really good deal. And Jesus knew
about this and He said, "I am
the vine and you are the branches. My father is the husbandman. He is the one
working, He is the one who is
making all this happen" And he says, "if you guys can figure this
out, and you begin to ask the Father in
My name, you wouldn't believe
all the things that He is going
to do." So let's take Him out of unemployment, and allow Him to do stuff in us.
BELIEVER 3: I like that. John 15, taking the
Father out of unemployment. He
is the husbandman.
BELIEVER 5: and this is where we see Adam
and Eve, and they had eaten from the other tree, they were not plugged into the
vine, they have been from another tree and then they are going to be cursed...
On the toil, on the sweat of their brow, toiling and laboring in the land,
tilling the land. But the way Jesus relates to us, to His disciples He says,
"I am the vine you are the branches. The Father is the husbandman, He
is the one that is working the land. Come on now let's get with
it." You know he is saying
to the disciples, "if you abide in Me
and My words abide in
you, ask whatever you will and will be done for you. Because I have a
relationship with the Father, we
are on the same page. I'm going to queue you in this fellowship." It is
really wonderful. Praise the Lord. And this is the same way that the warfare
goes. No one messes around with the Father.
When we are praying, the bottom line in Matthew is, "our Father... Deliver us from evil, for
thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen." So just
like the Father works, the Father is the one who delivers us from
evil. And we see Jesus praying that prayer, the devil comes in to Him to try to
get Him to be tempted and
everything, and Jesus says, "Man shall not live but by every word that
proceeds out of the mouth of God." Middle voice, proceeds out of
the mouth of God.
And there is only one life in us, and it is the life of the Father. When He
is the one with this agape love, then this love is only one love. And
this love, this Commonwealth of love, man this is really interesting, like in 1
Timothy 1:4, this is where I find that the ministry as the material on God's
economy, verse four, but after that it goes right into verse five, and it talks
about, "so the end of the law is love out of a pure heart, a good
conscience, and of faith unfeigned." There it is the Commonwealth of love,
when this has to do with the Father.
In that book on The Scriptural Way
to Meet, it doesn't
talk just about is God's economy, it talks about God's economy and the Fatherhood (p. 18). On page 21 it
talks about the new Jerusalem, everything is in the Father, it is the Fatherhood.
So it's like, man on here some other brothers and sisters speak about this in
context. Praise the Lord. Outside of the Father, nothing matters. If we'd know the Father, we are going to be really busy. Doing good stuff.
BELIEVER 4: well you start to put the rope directly in front of what we
need.
BELIEVER 5: what is that, is that a Spanish expression?
BELIEVER 4: I feel it's not only a Spanish expression, when you are tied
up to something, the rope is there to kill you. In other words by her own words
is our proposition bread.
BELIEVER 5: are you talking about propitiation bread. The bread of
propitiation, I understand that. Now, I don't understand the rope put in front
of us?
BELIEVER 4: in other words, by our words, we hang ourselves.
BELIEVER 5: I like how Jesus puts it when He says, "I'm not going to judge you (you know, in the end).
The words that I have spoken to you will judge you."
BELIEVER 4: you put the right words.
BELIEVER 5: I am in desperate person. I need all of the Lord. And it is
like, with you brothers, to allow Him to
take us over to possess His possession...
Because He has already bought
and paid for everything with His own
blood, but now He is up to
possessing His possession and we
are His possession. Are we not?
BELIEVER 3: yes we are, we are human beings. When He redeemed men unto God...
BELIEVER 5: yes, he has Artie paid for us. You know, we don't have any
right to ourselves. So I am really glad that He is really interested in moving into the property and taking
over. When His work is a piece
of cake, because He has been
here before, He has been through
this whole thing Himself. I
think now He's having fun with us. He is not really concerned about eight years
just kind of working it out. Yep, no big deal. I like the way He works, don't you? He's got that
nice touch about him.
BELIEVER 3: He knows what
he's doing. Because He's been
here and His completed
everything. Hallelujah.
BELIEVER 5: so what a mystery, isn't it? He knows what it's like to
complete this work, as a human being. Now the real thing, it must be a real
blessing to watch the human beings interconnect with one another, integrate
together when He shows up in us.
This is marvelous. Talk about the light side of the cross, this is in just
killing the individuals when killing the bad relationships between them, all
the co-dependencies, but He is
back when He is given each one
life, each one has life, and then the life itself is interconnected with
itself. This is known as keeping the oneness of the spirit. Not going out and
trying to provide a unity for the body so that Jesus will come back. No, Jesus
is back, and Jesus is living His life out as we keep the oneness of the Spirit.
It's not from the outside in, it's from the inside out. And so the middle
voice, we are working out our salvation with fear and trembling, knowing that
it is God who works both to do into will for His good pleasure. What a work!
Ephesians 2:10, these works have been provided from before the foundation of
the world, to walk in, finished (Eph 4:3). Terrible. Man this is rough
brothers. When we are concentrated like this, when we have the Spirit of Christ
in us, the spirit of Joshua and Caleb, there is like no problem, no problem.
Don't even feel the heat when it comes, the tree planted by the water, the boys
go through the fire and they don't even smell like smoke when they come out.
This is big stuff. The bush is on fire and it is not consumed. What's going on
here? Should we say anymore? If God be for us, who can be against us? Who shall
lay anything to the charge of God's elect? It is God who justifies. He
justifies in life. I am really depressed BELIEVER 3, what should I do?
BELIEVER 3: there is no reason to be depressed, you are being
unreasonable.
BELIEVER 5: any thoughts there from the Father?
BELIEVER 3: the Lord has given us a new understanding tonight. The
promised land is Christ coming into us to possess us. (Double possesion). It
sounds like middle voice language.
BELIEVER 5: well, I'll tell you what. There is some interesting
terminology for this... The promise, and two or three places where it talks
about the promise, like what He has promised, and it is in the middle voice,
and you are right on the money right there BELIEVER 3. I don't know if you have
any Bible (software) or any of that stuff, but if you go ahead and look up
promise in the Greek, in the forms, there is a few places in there where it is
in the middle voice. It is really amazing.
BELIEVER 3: do you know one in particular?
BELIEVER 5: I'll go look it up right now... Because this is the promised
land. Like the middle voice, like living in the middle voice, like living in
the promised land. Like that kind of place. (The Spirit, that you might receive
the promise of the Spirit). You know where it talks about, all the promises of
God in Him are yea and amen. One other forms is in Hebrews 6:13, another one
that is really nice is in Hebrews 10:23. It says, "let us hold fast the
profession of our faith without wavering (or He is faithful that
promised)." And that is in the middle voice, Hebrews 10:23. In another one
would be Hebrews 6:13, "for, when God made promise to Abraham..." I
love it, "made promise," not, promised to Abraham, like actively,
"made promise to Abraham, because He can swear by no greater, He swore by Himself." This is amazing, and we
need to develop a sense of this place of living. And then here is another one
Hebrews 11:11, "Through faith also Sara herself received strength to
conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she
judged Him faithful who had promised" (middle voice: promised). And here's
another one Romans 4:21, "and being fully persuaded that what He had
promised, He was able to perform." It in this terrible! And then Hebrews
12:26....
BELIEVER 4: why is it terrible
BELIEVER 5: that is a joke... That is not a wilderness joke. If we would
have said that in the wilderness people would be all upset, because they know
that they're going to die. They know that they are in trouble, they have a
death sentence upon. The rope is hanging from the base. Hebrews 12:26,
"who's voice shook the earth, but now He has promised, yet once more, I
shake not only the earth but also the heavens." We are the 1 John 2:25,
"and this is the promise that He has promised us, even eternal life."
Can't you sense that! And here, if you want to get into it again here, James
2:5, "Hearken , my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this
world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which He hath promised to them
that love Him?" Can you taste this. James 1:12, "Blessed is the man
that endureth temptation: for when he is tried , he shall receive the crown of
life, which the Lord hath promised to them that" what, "love
Him." I will just hit two more then let her go. Titus 1:2, "In hope
of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world
began..." And then we will do the last one here just for now, Acts 7:5,
"And He gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his
foot on: yet He promised that He would give it to him for a possession, and to
his seed after him, when as yet he had no child."
BELIEVER 3: that makes the word promise so glorious...
BELIEVER 5: Doesn't it. I remember the first time I got into this, it
was like, "oh my God, this is wonderful."
BELIEVER 3: yes it is, I don't even know how to voice will want to say,
but....
BELIEVER 5: you're doing well. I have a witness, when you said what you
just said. I have a witness in me, and I know what you mean, but if you have
some more on it I am willing to listen." It literally takes that word, and
it pulls it right out of the dirt, doesn't it? And it is like, wow, what a gem!
BELIEVER 3: yes, because the Lord promised in the hands of, or in the
mouths of humans that are not in the middle voice, they can't promise anything.
BELIEVER 5: and I will just say this, I used to keep track of the
messages of this church that I used to go to for years, and years, and years.
And you know what, one of the verses that the used to consistently, privately,
improperly interpret was the one that you brought up in 2 Corinthians 1, where
it says, "all the promises of God in Him are yes and amen." And what
they would do is, they would actually try to teach people to claim the promises
themselves without Christ, and try to go after them with their own effort, this
is terrible. They even had one little kind of teaching on the side there was
called, "marrying the promises." What a perversion.
BELIEVER 3: I don't even get that.
BELIEVER 5: in other words, say you are interested in some female, you
know, go marry her, make her your own. In other words go marry the promise. So
what I used to tell them was this, you know in a one-to-one level, because I
didn't want to embarrass people, because they are out there trying to seduce a
promise, and get something from God...
BELIEVER 3: that is like unbelief...
BELIEVER 5: yes, it is so pitiful. The other one that they used a
similarly misquote was, "seek ye first the kingdom of God in all these
things will be added unto you." They would always leave out, "and His
righteousness." Isn't that something. So these people that would preach
out of their souls, they would forget the righteousness of the Father, it is
His righteousness, and He is so righteous that He has promised us and He is
faithful, and faithful is He who has called you will also do it.
BELIEVER 3: it is like that, "I will give you a new heart, and I
will give you a new spirit, and I will put my spirit within in."
BELIEVER 5: the Father is coming out of unemployment. God is working.
Rather than, let's Genesis 3'em, you know genocide. Let's Genesis 3'em,
"you Original sinner, you filthy dirty rotten little dirtball. Now accept
Christ." You what I mean. And join the program, marry the promises and be
a part of our program, and we are going to go out there and we are going to win
souls and we are going to go all over the world, you know what I mean... And
our Bible college. I won't even go into all of it, I've seen so much of the
stuff. And I will just say, the Lord certainly uses stuff, He will use
anything, He will use the devil. But boy, what a thing it is to really find the
presence of God, and to have the presence of God revealed to us, a revelation
of what the promise is..."Faithful is He who has called you, who will also
do it." This is huge. We really get to rest, we believe and who He really
is and enter into rest. He comes into us, and Romans 9-11, where now it is not
us in Christ, it is Christ in us, the Spirit of Christ in us literally taking
over, literally living His life out in us, this is awesome, this is incredible.
And this is where the commonwealth of love, where it is all at, because if He
really did this, if He really comes in and becomes incarnated in us, and if He
really did die, He really did pay all the bills, He really did pay all the
bills. Nobody owes anybody anything ever again, ever, ever, ever. So, how is
the economy going to work if nobody has any bills? Paul says in Romans 13,
"okay everybody, owe no man anything but to love one another." So the
entire economy in God's kingdom, and the Father, and this dispensation of
gaining a family, the entire economy is based on loving one another. We have
finished all the work, everything has been done. Let's get involved in the
profitable labor here, let's live in the faith that works by love. If you do
anything without love, it will not be profitable.
BELIEVER 3: and I'll tell you the... The freedom, here is Galatians 5:13
(in the Conybeare), "for you brethren have been called to freedom, only
make not your freedom a vantage ground for the flesh, but rather enslave
yourselves one to another by the bondage of love. For all the law is fulfilled
in this one saying, "you shall love your neighbor as yourself.'"
BELIEVER 5: and in Galatians 5:23 it says, "and against such things
(like the fruit of the spirit) there is no law." There is no law against
this, because love is the highest law of life, of living. Imagine that, there
is no weapon that can be formed against them, no law against it. But if on our
free will level, if we do not love we break the law of love, and we invite all
kinds of havoc into our lives, horrifying. When we don't operate in love with
each other, when we don't have one spirit, trouble: split personalities,
insanity, just to get started; double minded, unstable in all of our ways. This
just goes on and on here, I don't mean to sound funny about this but I feel as
though, as we are all of getting to know Christ a little bit better here, and
as we are all getting to know Christ and one another, He is taking over. He is
taking over. And He knows how to keep what He takes over. You not only knows
how to get it, He can maintain it, is really good at it. So I used to joke with
these characters and say, because they're somewhere around 8,734 last time I
picked up a whole tally of them, and all of those in Him are yea and amen.
Doesn't that take all the sweat right out of it? Yes, 8734 promises. I know
people that have lost their minds trying to play all that out with linear
reasoning, circular reasoning, they just go right out of their minds. I knew
one guy, he had lost his mind two or three times trying to put it all together.
BELIEVER 3: you could, you would. It is too large.
BELIEVER 5: it is better just to believe on Christ. Or do you think
should we stop for now?
BELIEVER 3: yeah that sounds good, I think that this promised, middle
voice understanding is very good. I like it.
BELIEVER 5: yes we are in trouble.
BELIEVER 4, are you still there.
BELIEVER 4: I am still here in the midst of all your sharing.
BELIEVER 5: you know what, I have been so blessed from The Light of
Glory and From Sea to Shining Sea, I have been getting refreshed
poking around in their little bit, and copying of stuff and putting this stuff
together for this project site, this is awesome. This is awesome. We just don't
have enough hours in the day to live in Christ.
I got nervous earlier, I got up around 2 o'clock this morning and I
thought, man I should get, I've been feeding him so much good stuff for so
long, I am getting nervous thinking that I am going to just crash.
BELIEVER 4: the old man cracks.
BELIEVER 5: yeah, he is a crackpot (he is a cracked nutshell).
(BELIEVER 5: leaves the fellowship).
BELIEVER 3: BELIEVER 4, did you know that when God makes a promise that
is in the middle voice?
BELIEVER 4: of course
BELIEVER 3: did you know that it is impossible... This breaks upon my
understanding, it does I have been wondering, like a covenant where it talks
about in the book of Galatians, how God made a covenant, and it says, this is
wonderful, oh this is wonderful! "Brethren, I speak in man's language,
nevertheless, a man's covenant when it is ratified cannot be annulled by its
giver or set aside by a later edition...." Now the Conybeare translation
is strange for this verse. He is trying to make sense, because this verse
doesn't make much sense (naturally). As a matter of fact he says, "this is
a hard to understand verse, there are more than 250 different explanations of
this verse. It is difficult to understand." And I asked the Lord,
"what does verse mean?" I have no idea, I don't even know, why did
Paul say that? And that was before, then I read the Conybeare commentary, that
there were 250 different explanations for it, and I thought, "I will just
give up on it, I am not even going to try." But this fellowship tonight,
praise the Lord. But it says, "a mediator is not a mediator of one, but
God is one." And then we have here, "though it be a man's covenant,
if it be confirmed no man disanulleth..." And then it says, "now I
mediator is not a mediator one, but God is one." Because, when man makes a
promise to another man they enter into an agreement, and it is like he has to
have somebody bind his will, because he is so unfaithful that he probably can't
fulfill his word, he has to enter into an agreement with another person, and
there is a mediator there between these two people, two parties. And this is
what you have with the giving of the law in the Old Testament, there is a
mediator in the middle, there is an outward thing called the law. But in the
New Testament there is no mediator, well the mediator between God and man, the
man Christ Jesus, but He is God, and God makes a covenant and a promise then
there is no need of someone in between, or someone to buying either one of them
to it, because He can fulfill it, and He promised to fulfill it in us in the
middle voice. It's blown me away, I can't even wrap my brain around it. But
what God promises, even the word promise... He does it, He does it, that is the
only way that I can say it, He does of Himself what He has promised. It doesn't
require this even though the promises concerning us, He promised Abraham that
he would have his son by Sarah. Abraham could not of themselves do anything to
fulfill a promise. But he believed God and God fulfill this promise to Abraham.
And it is the same as, all the promises of God in Him are yes. And these
promises were promised in the middle voice. It is quite amazing. Because He
doesn't promise like He's can do something for us, when it is in the middle
voice and there is someone that is going to participate in the fulfillment of
it, but God is going to do it because He is the one that promised it (and in
many cases initiated it).
BELIEVER 4: if you say this I am going to say just a small thing. To
truly understand that Abraham did not do anything, well the Lord did quite a
job to destroy the human strength of Abraham which is the same thing that He
does with us too, so that we will understand that we cannot arrive to what He
has promised. He is always the one who does. We try to find out how the Lord is
going to accomplish and us, but we never find this out until we are completely
dead. Because we know that we cannot fulfill this. In the moment that He allows
that we understand this is the moment that He becomes everything. Because this
is the moment that we have no more hope in ourselves. But this is beyond our
capacity, for example I am going to put what happened today on the table. What
Christ did for us, you went the essence of what God promised Abraham which
becomes our inheritance, and we talked about the land. But I want to put some
points regarding the practicality, and then I will come back to what is set in the
heavens. And this is huge. And today he says, if you and I are going to
persevere into the end... And other words you and I, both of us we cannot
accomplish this.
BELIEVER 3: yes, and I am not going to try...
BELIEVER 4: no we try... Abraham... And I am going to say that this is
by experience, and I'm going to go to the practicality of this. It is easy to, for example the first thing
that the Lord allows us we cannot do it but this is what brother Watchman Nee
put in the way that, but inside of us we say, "I can do it." I'm
going to say two things that is happened with two brothers, something just as a
reflection. BELIEVER 2 has tried to quit the pride team around four or five
weeks ago because he choose to, he feels that he cannot do these kind of things.
In other words he is the last one, and he doesn't want to play with I am the
last, and other words I am the weakest. He has never imagine that you would go
to the divisionals, and I did neither. This is the one thing, in other words we
say to the Lord, "yes Lord, I want to do it." But we cannot do it. In
other words go all the way until we know that we cannot do it, and other words
this is our, the covenant means that it is between two parties, God and man. In
other words what happened is for example, what happened is with the youngest
sister with what happened yesterday (?), In other words, God needs to put our
faith daily and trials, and in tests. For example today, one sister shared me
what is going on with her daughter, she had a terrible trouble with the head
coach yesterday. In other words by faith I know that God is faithful, but to
stand on the things that God says, is like you say "I don't know how
you're going to do a Lord." We know that the promises there, but for
example she doesn't even want to tell, this is what we are.
LA: I think that if we really know what the promise is and we enter into
it, but that is the problem. If we don't really...
BELIEVER 4: allow me to talk something, because this is going to go
beyond our comprehension. Allow me to just share the example and then you can
flow. In other words what I did, I said, "I don't feel that your daughter
even listens to the coach." It is not what you hear, it is what the Lord
says. In other words, when I said, "your daughter doesn't even listen,"
she made me an upside down afternoon to go, and then when I went I said,
"well, I am just going to wait on the Lord." In other words the way
that God presents, and I'm going to go to what we are talking, the covenant
with God... With the father of our faith with Abraham, and other words the
inheritance that we receive in the Father. We need to know that the same
process that happened with Abraham is the same process that happens for us.
Because we need to know that we are heirs of God, but it is he who accomplishes
everything. But inside of us, inside we feel, "I need to do
something." The Lord needs to put this under death, and the real way. And
this is what it means resurrection.
BELIEVER 3: so he hasn't done it yet?
BELIEVER 4: he doesn't do it until we completely understand from inside
out. But this is like you say, well....
BELIEVER 3: he hasn't done it yet?
BELIEVER 4: I don't do it. In other words, you understand, and other
words you are be, it is a covenant between two parties, we talked about the
middle voice.
BELIEVER 3: so basically, we are not dead in Christ because Christ is
crucified. We're dead in Christ only when we experience it by the Holy Spirit.
Apart from that we are not dead in Christ.
BELIEVER 4: yes, yes.
BELIEVER 3: we are not alive, we are still dead in our sins. We are dead
in our trespasses and sins, until we have the full experience in that...
BELIEVER 4: yes. But He allows that we pursue going to the promised
land... In other words He allows that we try to do it, but He needs to show us
that without Him in us, no clue. This is when we are truly in other words, we
know that He is. And we know that because of Him we receive it, because of His
Son in us, we possess. But this is huge. Because for example, and you can keep
going at your closing point on this. I never had in my, the last trip there we
went to Indiana, I never had it in my, even when we were planning to leave, I
never had in my mind, and my thoughts the integration that the Lord is starting
to work with our sisters, and the way that right now he is starting to do.
Because I feel for example, I take this life as an example. All that she has
experienced in her life, she is starting to put in service of the fellowship,
and interact as if we had known each other many years. In other words, if both
of them allow him, allow this Christ to go through, one of these days the
fellowship is going to go unto the end, and other words she lost the
consciousness of what both of them are naturally. In other words the both of
them feel everything that is going on. In other words there starting to put
some things that in other words both sisters are going to say, "well this
is what we are." But for me have no clue of this kind of unity for 3 1/2
months or whatever things we are. No clue in other words, of the depths of the
words of Christ, the Spirit that He is start to do it. Because the sisters is
amazing how the things as in the work it out, and they give a testimony of how
the things are going on. This is huge. Because when we don't see. Do you
remember what I said. I said before we went to Indiana, I said, "well, we
need to know if the Lord does something, because if we are going to move, but
until now I don't see anything." But in the way that today I called, and
she said 'we are ready." Because day by day the sisters are consciousness
of what we are doing in the fellowship in reality. Wow. It is like, you take
away your, you have all slides is like we have the old creation and we have all
the thoughts and everything, and we have constituted even the religion and
everything and we just have has a memory here, it is like the Lord says,
"hey, put all these things here (?)." And he puts a new consciousness
(in us). In this day brother Bill Freeman says this, when we are in Christ we
have a new consciousness. But we, but this kind of consciousness I try to work
with the sisters slowly, because the new consciousness, the enemy tries to
destroy this new consciousness. In other words little by little and the love
needs to, it is like in other words if you are not take it little by little the
both, it is like the enemy has a chance to attack more and more of what the
ground that we have started to gain. And here, and these three books it says in
part, in the moment that you say to the Lord, Your will, all the force of the
enemy comes to try to stop us and say to us, "you are not going
anywhere." But this life has more power than all the powers of hell. How
is it that this life has more power than all the powers of hell. Because it is
the living Christ, and other words it is the corporate... The recovery talks
about the doctrine of this, but it is the corporate Christ, like a stand, and
other words it is like a side and set and say, "this is that, do...."
And I have a chance to say something regarding BELIEVER 7 and BELIEVER 6, I
don't know what is happening the trip but what I know, even if the people try
to do things in a natural way, the brothers say, "Hey BELIEVER 4, in the
meetings of all his family...Hey BELIEVER 3." and other words, for this is
completely for the other people that is near to these people in other words in
the old creation still, even though they are not in the meeting... It is like
taking a gun and blowing out their brains, do you understand? Right now where BELIEVER
7 and BELIEVER 6 were is where their friends (live), their old friends, and
they had this fellowship in the house of their old friends... And to share
these kind of things. It is like there is coming some guy from the other
planet. And because you love these people in the flesh, the people are not
going to tell to you, but after the people leave, BELIEVER 7 and BELIEVER 6,
they're going to say, "what happened with these guys. I have no
clue." It is like a love, love the people, but these people are not the
people that the people knew before. In other words it is the other identity.
Because BELIEVER 7 what the Lord has done, BELIEVER 7 is in the discipline of
the Holy Spirit now. And he started to share and say, "???????" and I
said, "amen, amen, and amen." And other words in the discipline of
the flesh the Spirit is dealing with him. BELIEVER 6 knows the difficulties of
many things and says, well we will leave it there, in other words these
brothers are facing many things naturally, but these brothers understand the
position that these brothers having Christ, for me this is beyond natural
comprehension. Because it is like sitting in hell I'm establishing, "how
am I this?" And I feel that it is coming, and other words the warfare of
the others, because the others are going to say, "well..." They have
a chance to do two things. They could say, "what is going on with you
guys?" Present what you are, because your other persons. In one side, and BELIEVER
7 has a chance to come with tears and say this is what I am. In other words, it
is a new creation. And the others are going to say, "I don't know if I
accept you or I am going to reject you." But you are, it is like, and this
is what the people are going to say, it is like you have a mind erased, "I
don't understand, how the people can change." Not just only change
nationality but change their being. And the understanding that the Lord gave
tonight and the way that the Lord allowed to see different points, different
points. And everything is completed is one piece. This is huge. It is like
everyone has eyes in different directions, it is the four wheels, it is the
four creatures. In other words everyone is walking, but one sees is one thing
and the other sees another thing, because they are facing a different directions,
one sees to the north the other to the east, the other to the West go to the
South. And it is like a different picture, it is like the four Gospels. But we
are talking about the same person. That is all.
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