Fellowship March 30th, 2013

Fellowship in the Household of Faith

03/30/2013

Subjects: “In that day you will ask of me nothing…”

BELIEVER 3: because of grace and mercy we have forgiveness, there is a premise for forgiveness for all of us, how the blood of Jesus Christ sets a basis for a relationship with each other.  This is what a brother said yesterday, which I am reading from text, "so man unwittingly crucified himself when the crucified Christ, which open the doorway for kingdom of God. BR was saying that because the blood of Christ so powerful now that it speaks better things than that of Abel, who speaks that there is forgiveness for all of us.  This is the basis that we are to express ourselves to one another all the time. So even as we think about one another, there is absolutely no judgment; it is forgiveness for each other for the worst offense, isn't that great! I love it. Talk about removing the beam out of our eye. So I am very confident that we have boldness to enter into the throne of grace to obtain mercy and find grace for help in a timely need. 

BELIEVER 4: holy word for morning revival, Daniel and Zechariah, week six

The victory of the overcomers.

The overcome ours as the shining stars are the messengers of the churches, those who are one with Christ as the messenger of God and who possess the present Christ as the living and fresh message sent by God to his people. We have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to give heed as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns in the morning star rises in your hearts. Before dawning of the Lord's appearing, the morning star rises in the hearts of believers, eliminated and enlightened by giving heed to the shining word of prophecy in the Scripture.

The principle of the Lord's recovery is seen with Daniel and his companions (Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah), who were absolutely one with God in their victory over Satan's devices. We can he Jesus by eating his words and by being careful to contact me with those who call on him out of a pure heart. 

BELIEVER 1: BELIEVER 4, you shared this in three different meetings now, but you have only quoted from a book you have not shared any of your personal experience or your heart over this. 

BELIEVER 4: when we follow the Lord, we become stones for his building. God infuses us with himself as the preciousness to transform us into living and precious stones for his building. Whatever is not the true God in our regenerated spirit is an idol replacing God; whatever is not in the spirit or of the spirit is an idol. We have many idols. You know what my idol is.  For me everything being perfectly clean is idol.

BELIEVER 2: I feel to share because the Lord is starting to harmonize everything this night.  First of all I really enjoyed how the Lord is starting to work with everyone, even if we don't see how, I know the Lord is working. The fellowship of this night has started differently in one area and harmonizing another area. And now what has been talked about regarding grace mercy and forgiveness, we had talked about the overcomers, and how God does all things with us.  We have also talked about the offering of Abel, but also we are talking about how the blood of Jesus speaks better things than the blood of Abel. Concerning what you are talking about regarding the idols I was enjoying something of brother Sparks at around six o'clock this morning, if we don't have revelation regarding this we're going to hear it we are not going to digest it.  BELIEVER 4 is putting a very important point regarding idols. Yesterday I watched a video regarding what Jesus talked about  father versus what the Jews talk about the father.

BELIEVER 1: in the video are you talking about Jesus talks about the father and the Jews talk about God, or are you saying that the Jews also talk about God?

BELIEVER 2: to be able to review this we need to review the Old Testament, which was originally written in Hebrew or Aramaic.

BELIEVER 3: do you mean consider, instead of review?

BELIEVER 2: if we use the word consider we are involving ourselves into very difficult ways. 

BELIEVER 3: then let's use a better word, and not go down that road.

BELIEVER 2: spirit of God is the one who reveals the whole Scripture.

BELIEVER 3: when we talk about the spirit of God, are we talking about the father through His son?

BELIEVER 2: the spirit of God, the father, speaks in the Old Testament regarding the father. For the Jews it was prohibited to mention the name of God, neither could they make an image of God. When we see in the New Testament, Jesus is revealing the father in his person.  This is the reason why the Jews couldn't accept what Jesus was saying.  We need to understand that Scripture is not for private interpretation.  Ruah Kadesh, or the spirit of God, is the one who needs to open the Scripture. Jesus, when the spirit comes, said that the spirit would reveal all things, the spirit of God. We have Paul, and Paul prayed for the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him.

BELIEVER 3: I am remembering where Jesus said, "the spirit of truth" will reveal it. He spoke about himself as the Son of Man, at the time when he was in the flesh on the Earth.  He didn't speak about himself so much as the son of God, he spoke about himself as the Son of Man, and spoke about the spirit of truth, which is key. 

BELIEVER 2: I am going to go to the point regarding what is the most important thing that is happening right now. The Lord Jesus works in us, someone we try to put our names and say, "Jesus said," or "BELIEVER 2 said," or "BELIEVER 3 said..." I am going to say that we need to know who it is who reveals son.  And we need to know that the son lives in us.  So we need to just allowed the spirit of God....

BELIEVER 3: so we are getting back into the spirit Christ... We have the spirit of the son in us, this is very key, rather than the spirit of God.

BELIEVER 2: well we have the spirit of Christ, we have the spirit of truth... (BELIEVER 3: very key).  If we want to understand what is going on, and we talked about the blood of Jesus gives access to the father, and then BELIEVER 4 talked about what is going on in her own experience, and in her own life regarding the idols. Then we talked about the Jews how, even the name, even an image, the Jews put on the side; we need to see that in the moment the spirit starts the sanctification process with us, everything goes in the direction of him taking all of us.  In this process is what we are talking about tonight.

BELIEVER 3: I am just trying to follow the spirit of truth that Jesus is telling his disciples about... Because it Jesus speaking he is speaking about the spirit of truth, "the father seeks such to worship in spirit and in truth." I am familiar with that.  (BELIEVER 1: maybe you should develop that). The Scriptures are very clear, if we're going to do a study on this development as BELIEVER 2 was sharing, then we need to be tuned in with the Scripture and the development of this understanding.

BELIEVER 2: if we talk in this way everything is blurry, everything is not open because according to what the father proposed to reveal himself in what he wants, we have a chance to know all truth.

BELIEVER 3: well, father is the one who reveals the son, son reveals the father, and the son reveals the father to whom chooses to reveal him to.  But this is very key, Jesus was very clear about this.

BELIEVER 2: well we can read about in this, and how this applies in practicality and how the Lord unifies one another, this is what we're talking about tonight. 

BELIEVER 3: Yeah Matthew 11:25, Luke 10... This is very key. 

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

BELIEVER 2: if he reveals these things to infants, do we open ourselves to the Lord for the Lord to work in us as infants? This is the key.

BELIEVER 3: when we received the spirit of the infant Jesus, then we begin to understand.  But we haven't even gotten into that part yet, it starts out in 25, 26, and 27. So maybe we should finish that onethought it we are going to continue.  Just to have it in context. 

26 Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do. 27 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one fully knows the Son except the Father, and no one fully knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

BELIEVER 2: here there are two parts. One is the father revealing the son, when the father chooses, the other is the son reaveling the father to whom he chooses.  It is easy to connect and use the things our strength, to allow the spirit of God to open everything, this is something serious. Let's go through Luke 10 also. 

21 In that same hour he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou didst hide these things from the wise and understanding, and didst reveal them unto babes: yea, Father; for so it was well-pleasing in thy sight.

22 All things have been delivered unto me of my Father: and no one knoweth who the Son is, save the Father; and who the Father is, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son willeth to reveal him.

BELIEVER 1: that is amazing, I am just thinking is sometimes in the Gospels is sometimes a little different version in the verses, sometimes the Gospels will tell the same story a little bit differently, but this specific text is not too different.  Luke and Matthew both wrote this down and seems pretty clear, and it is a concept that could easily be confused, because we are easily confused about these things, but these guys were not confused about it.

BELIEVER 3: and if we want to cross-reference this with John 16:29, John has a version of this too.

BELIEVER 2: In that same hour he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou didst hide these things from the wise

who hides these things from the wise? The father. And didst reveal them unto babes... Who reveals this? The father.  yea, Father; for so it was well-pleasing in thy sight.  And then the functions change again, the separation the Lord uses the father...All things have been delivered unto me of my Father: and no one knoweth who the Son is, save the Father; and who the Father is, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son willeth to reveal him.

In the first part it is the father who reveals, and in the second part it is the son who reveals.  And in 23 he says, 23 And turning to the disciples, he said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see: 24 for I say unto you, that many prophets and kings desired to see the things which ye see, and saw them not; and to hear the things which ye hear, and heard them not...The good thing of here is what we are regarding us, because privately the Lord reveals the father and the father reveals the son. 

BELIEVER 3: And the Way John talks about this... It starts in verse 23 to 29 of John chapter 16, and these prior two portions Matthew 11 and Luke 10, and is Matthew this communication of it and Luke's, are on the same subject the same thought, and now here's John on it.  So I will start with the last one verse 29, where his disciples say "Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest not in a parable." Okay.  That is the eye-opener right there. This is when Jesus reveals the father to the disciples, as was communicated back in Matthew and Luke.  So I am going to back it up a little bit and go down to 25 and say, what he had said at the beginning of the thought was... These things, as he has been speaking to them... He says, "I have spoken to you in parables. An hour is coming when I will no longer speak to you in parables..." And this is so beautiful in conjunction with Matthew and Luke..." But I will report to you plainly concerning the father." Isn't this wonderful!  Verse 26, "and in that day you ask in my name, and I do not say to you that I will ask the father concerning you, because the father himself loves you because you have loved me, and you believe that it came forth out from God (the father) and have come into the world again. I am leaving the world and am going to the father..." This is where he is talking about no more parables, but now I am letting you know about the father.  And were going to go back a few verses to verse 23 and 24, because this is where it starts connecting in a functional level. In the functional part reveals what is going to happen when their eyes are opened, what they will be doing or what they will be able to do.  So in verse 23 it says, "in that day you will ask me nothing.  Truly, truly, I say unto you whatever you ask the father in my name he will give it to you.  Until now you have asked for nothing in my name.  Ask and you shall receive, that your joy may be full."  Amazing!

BELIEVER 1: I can't believe the Bible says that.

BELIEVER 3: okay, now that we have heard the old man talk, what does the new man say?

BELIEVER 1: WOW!!!!! "In that day you ask me nothing” what is he talking about?

BELIEVER 3: I love with the new man says.

BELIEVER 2: why did Jesus say that we would not ask him any? Because we're conformed to the same image as the son. Now let's go to verse 30-33

30 Now know we that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God. 31 Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe? 32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me. 33 These things have I spoken unto you, that in me ye may have peace. In the world ye have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

And who is it that overcomes the world also, he who believes in him overcomes the world. If we don't understand, that even though Jesus revealed all these things to the disciples, and then he said will would go on after that, everyone will be scattered, and Jesus was left alone but he said that he was not alone, and then he prayed the prayer of John 17 where he revealed everything in John 17.  We can know this but to have the relationship, the Lord Jesus prayed, "that they may be one, as you father and I are one." This is the wonder of the gospel.  It is easy to have the mental knowledge of this, but to become one this is what it is about.  What I enjoyed regarding brother Sparks today is really good, because it shows how it is the father who does all things.  All things if we allow him.  But this is a serious matter, because everything in the Scriptures testimony, a confirmation, and how the Scriptures can be applied in our life, if we just allow him. 

In March 30 it Open Windows, from brother Sparks it says,

"The Son can do nothing by Himself. (John 5:19 NLT)

That is the principle of the Cross. He accepted that position of being able to do nothing out from Himself. It must all come out from God. There is no way through otherwise.... There was a revolution in my life thirty years ago when that principle of the Cross came flat up against ministry – ministry that for years I had been producing – against all my study, reading and late nights, to get up the stuff for ministry, till the whole thing became an intolerable burden in myself. Others perhaps thought it to be pretty good, but the crisis when – listen to me, men and women who are in ministry, or contemplating it – the whole turn came upon the recognition of this principle, this principle of the Cross when, with the door closed, I said to the Lord ‘I am finished in all ministry, I am never going to preach again unless You do something now. I have been doing it all these years; I have been producing this, now I am finished. You have got to do it.’ But I saw that principle, you see, as the principle of the Cross and I meant it.

Forgive me speaking of myself, but I must bring this home in some way. The next week would have seen my resignation in with my church officers, and I would have gone out from ministry if the Lord had not done it. But the Lord was true to His own principle. It was an utter end of anything that I could produce for ministry, and I meant it to be like that, because I recognized that God meant that. That was the principle of the Cross – nothing out from ourselves. No fruit that labor and study of the mind and heart could produce has a way through in the work and service of God. God was true to His own principle – He always is. From that day to this, there has been no trouble about ministry. It is easy to let ministry go, and much more easy than to accept it. This clamoring for ministry – it is uncrucified flesh. Well, there has been an open heaven since then. Again I beg your forgiveness for making this personal reference, but this is a true thing."

And it wasn't enough to just read the small portion this book, which is portion from The Cross and the Way of Life, so the Lord allowed me to go to a different part.  And there are very good parts that I want to share.  The Lord is treating us very well and this night. The Lord has also putting things in the way that he wants, and that is very good, because if we allow that he does what he wants to do everything is perfect. All of this, "the way of release," chapter 1 from The Cross and the Way of Life by Austin-Sparks.  Brother Sparks puts three Scriptures that are very good. 

"I came to cast fire upon the earth" and later it says, "Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink the cup that I drink?" and the last says, ""Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ were baptized into his death?"  This beginning is three directions that involve everything. After it says, "Give the Holy Spirit a way, and see what happens! Allow the release of the Lord, and things will be irresistible and irrepressible. Indeed, they will get beyond us and beyond us. We will not be able to cope with them." "There is a word here used later by the Lord, to which we will come presently, but it is appropriate to note it now. "How am I straitened till it be accomplished!" That word 'straitened' is very interesting in the New Testament. It is given to us in various forms. It means 'constrained', and that word is found in the gospels when the woman, pressing through the crowd with her infirmity, stretched forth her hand and touched the Lord and He turned and said, "Who touched Me?" His disciples said, "Master, the throng press Thee, how sayest Thou, Who touched Me?"

All these things are wonderful, but it is only the new man who has a chance to bear these things. The fire provocation, the fire of rejection, the fire of discrimination, and all the Lord does with us.  This is called separation, and sanctification. 

BELIEVER 3: yes, separated unto the father.  It is one thing for people to try to pray to the Lord, and I hear people pray to the Lord, . It is another thing when they pray in the name of the Lord Jesus as a son to the father.  Because the disciples, they can go ahead and pray to the Lord, but what the Lord says to them is that, "so far you have asked nothing of the father." To be at the Lord's name, as Jesus was saying to be one with him, is to live by him and live as a son. Like it was said earlier, "if we allow," if we let the Lord live it as, and we pray and his name, this is what we allow Christ to be our life.  And when we are one with the son, and then the son in us, reveals the relationship that we have with the father as the son has.  In the Recovery's teaching this is where we go into "the prayer of the age."  And this is beautiful because this is where we begin to pray one with the son to the father, and that we begin to experience the viewpoint of seeing everything through the eyes of the father.  And this is earlier in John 16, this is where we find the middle voice seeing.  And it is so beautiful because there are three places where Jesus is talking to the disciples, where he would tell them, "in a little while and you will not behold me, and then in a little while you will see me."  IN verse 18 he says the same thing again, "in a little while" and this is just before he is going to be crucified, in verse 19, "in a little while you will not behold me, and again in a little while you will see me."  The first seeing that is mentioned is in active voice in their old man, like the natural man cannot see who he is.  Then when the spirit comes from the father, he says, "now you're going to see." And that is in the middle voice. So if you look at the Greek you see him using these two verbs for "see," an active voice in the middle voice. The first time the guys are praying to Jesus, and after that once they have the spirit they are praying to the father as the son. 

BELIEVER 2: does any brother feel to share anything regarding these verses?

BELEIVER 3: it is no longer just us that prays, it is Jesus in us that prays. That gives meaning to our prayer. It is not just things to do, it is the spirit of Christ in us that speaks to us, and that prays through us by our mouth. And we have to express by our mouth, but it is him in us that speaks. It is nice, it makes sense. 

BELIEVER 2: I feel regarding your appetite concerning spiritual, I feel the enjoyment has increased since you have been near BELIEVER 3, and this is a good thing.

BELIEVER 3: we have sitting right next to each other speaking in the heart. What happened was we are coming from the brazen altar type of prayer, we are pleading the blood and mercy, and we have entered into yet in the golden altar of incense where now it is not brass anymore it is gold, and we are with the father and we are experiencing the father's heart, and we're releasing the desire of the father's heart intercessory-wise. And I just pulled out one of the old Morning Revival's, around 1999.  It is dealing with the prayer life of Christ, the effectiveness of the incense altar, and goes right into this. 

BELIEVER 5: One New Man by Witness Lee Chapter 7

Paul and the One New Man

Paul was much deeper and stronger in Judaism than Peter was. Peter was a fisherman from Galilee, but Paul was a scholar in the Jewish religion. He was taught at the feet of Gamaliel, the great Jewish teacher (Acts 22:3). In Galatians 1 Paul told us that he “advanced in Judaism beyond many contemporaries in my race” (v. 14). Paul was greatly zealous for the Jewish religion with its traditions and ordinances. Despite Paul’s strong Jewish background, he was able to tell us in 1 Corinthians 12:13 that we were all baptized into one Body, “whether Jews or Greeks.” In Galatians 3:27-28 Paul told us that those who have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ and “there cannot be Jew nor Greek.” In Colossians 3:10-11 Paul told us that the Jew and the Greek have no place in the new man. For you and me to say such a word might be easy. But for Paul to speak in such a way with his deep and strong Jewish education, shows the marvelous renewing in his mentality.

Even the Apostle Paul, however, made a great mistake due to the influence of Judaism. The leading ones in the church in Jerusalem with James taking the lead told Paul to observe “how many thousands there are among the Jews who have believed, and all are zealous for the law” (Acts 21:20). These Jews were believers in Christ, yet they all still kept the ordinances. The brothers in Jerusalem were concerned because these Jews had been instructed concerning Paul that he was “teaching all the Jews throughout the nations apostasy from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children, nor to walk according to the customs” (v. 21). These Jews were typical believers in Christ, yet they still kept the ordinances, and they heard that Paul was breaking the ordinances. As a result of this, the brothers suggested that Paul participate in a Nazarite vow with four other men. They instructed Paul to do this so that all would know concerning Paul that “there is nothing to the things of which they have been instructed concerning you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the law” (v. 24). Paul was convinced by the brothers and entered into the temple to participate in the Nazarite vow.

Paul was surely clear that such a practice was of the out-of-date dispensation, which, according to the principle of his teaching in the New Testament ministry, especially in Romans and Galatians, should be repudiated in God’s New Testament economy. Yet Paul still went through with it. Paul went back to the temple, and the Lord would not allow it. When the seven days of the vow were about to be concluded, the Lord intervened in His sovereignty. He allowed Paul to be arrested by the Jews and imprisoned by the Romans. After that, in A.D. 70, the Lord sent the Roman army under Titus to completely destroy Jerusalem with the temple. This fulfilled the Lord’s prophecy in Matthew 24 when He said concerning the temple that “a stone shall by no means be left upon a stone which shall not be thrown down” (v. 2). Paul was clear when he came to Jerusalem, but the atmosphere and the environment there forced him to take the compromising proposal which would bring in a mixture that could devastate God’s New Testament economy concerning the church.

BELIEVER 2: do you brothers over there feel to continue?

BELIEVER 3: you mean the Baltimore contingency? That is an extension of the life that is in you guys and it's one with us too.  We are both a mutual contingentency. BELIEVER 1 we have a contingent plan.  If the law fails, we will live by grace.  The contingent plan is that if the first plan fails you use the other one. So we're living in the contingent plan.  The law has failed to give us life. 

BELIEVER 4: we are going to go to Ezekiel 34:11. I like a lot prophecies of Ezekiel. 

"For thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I myself, even I, will search for my sheep, and will seek them out. As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered abroad, so will I seek out my sheep; and I will deliver them out of all places whither they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day. And I will bring them out from the peoples, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them into their own land; and I will feed them upon the mountains of Israel, by the watercourses, and in all the inhabited places of the country. I will feed them with good pasture; and upon the mountains of the height of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie down in a good fold; and on fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel. I myself will be the shepherd of my sheep, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord Jehovah.  I will seek that which was lost, and will bring back that which was driven away, (He does this every day with us) and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but the fat and the strong I will destroy; I will feed them in justice. And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I judge between sheep and sheep, the rams and the he-goats. Seemeth it a small thing unto you to have fed upon the good pasture, but ye must tread down with your feet the residue of your pasture? and to have drunk of the clear waters, but ye must foul the residue with your feet? And as for my sheep, they eat that which ye have trodden with your feet, and they drink that which ye have fouled with your feet. Therefore thus saith the Lord Jehovah unto them: Behold, I, even I, will judge between the fat sheep and the lean sheep. And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. And I, Jehovah, will be their God, and my servant David prince among them; I, Jehovah, have spoken it." For the Lord we are all sheep, some are inside and some outside.  But he says that he is going to seek us, and he will be with him who cannot walk, and he will make weak him who fat and strong. God does not seek the strong but that weak. It is not seek wise, but the foolish, but God is always merciful with all of us. We are all sheep, but the Lord God gathers us all together even though we are all from different parts. We are sheep's by allowing the Lord to be our shepherd.  Because without the Lord we are not sheep, only when the Lord works in us do we become sheep. But it is not so easy to be a sheep.

BELIEVER 2: it is easy to complain.

BELIEVER 4: because we are all from different parts, we have French sheep, North American sheep, Ecuadorian sheep, but here we are all as one flock.

BELIEVER 2: according to the old creation

BELIEVER 1: do you know what "old" means? It means the same as when it says, "old things have passed away, behold all things have become new." That's what old means, that which has "passed away." It doesn't mean old, like chronologically old. It means like that which has passed away. 

BELIEVER 3: you mean because something is new, the first thing becomes old?

BELIEVER 1: yes, the old became old and was done away with because the new thing came that replaced it.

BELIEVER 3: you mean like the new thing came and in the first thing became old?

BELIEVER 1: old man wasn't old man until the new man came.

BELIEVER 3: so in other words, first we get life, and in the old things passed away.

BELIEVER 1: and it is not likeness old man keeps, but this old man that was burried, and was done's  away with. 

BELIEVER 3: like the proper context.  Like the Gentiles, he by nature recognizes that Jesus has life.  The Jews don't recognize him because they're living by the law, and they are trying to measure him according to the law.  The Gentiles just looked at him and say, "oh my gosh, this guy has got the goods... Just say a word, you don't even have to come over to the house... Just say something, and we will be healed."  And he goes, "this guy has got great things." So that is the context. Until we become the Gentiles, until we become the sheep, until we become the infants of the father, the sheep with the shepherd... Praise the Lord!  The little babies are the one that really know how to praise him. Which beautiful is that Christ is our life; he is the child, and he is the sheep that we get as an inheritance.  So we have actually inherited a childlike life.  Wonderful!  We are able to be sheep because Jesus was the lamb that was in grave, and when he comes forth from the grave we are in good shape. 

BELIEVER 1: I want to share a little bit more before I go.  The last few fellowships, I feel like as we are winding down and getting ready to go to bed, in those last few moments we really begin to touch the fringes, and hem, and really good things. But I thought, "if we really go deep what will that look like?" Will we not sleep?

BELIEVER 3: do you know what this looks like to me? Later this morning there is going to be some people that go over to the grave where Jesus was burried (night before Easter), and they are going to be looking for him.  And there is going to be a gal that ends up finding him.  There is a portion in Romans 10 where it says, "I was found by them that sought me not." Maybe you are familiar with it, maybe not. But the point is this: we don't even know what he looks like.  We would think is the gardener, on a good day. So you said to me, "I wonder what that would look like?" And I said, "well, to one person it would look like a gardener."  But when he speaks to us, then we know who he is. So what this looks like to me is, when I am around you, I am around a gardener, but when I hear Jesus come forth from you and you speak from the spirit and the release Christ to me then, "I know who you are Jesus." 

Fellowship March 4th, 2013 (John 17)

Believer 1: we're going to return to the part that we talked about. Not the whole thing that we talked about this afternoon, but we're going to talk about the relationship of the bride of Christ with Christ himself.

Believer 2: and maybe I'll throw this out there to, because the reason that we started to record this is because we are talking about the Father. I just put that out there in the beginning so that when I am referencing this I am tuned in.

Believer 1: when I say the Lord knows that's the way I start. You said, "how about the Father? "Many people don't mention the talk about him. Like you said earlier if we just say "Jesus" or "the Lord" things are clarified. we need to come back the relationship between the Lord Jesus and Father in order to understand what the church is. And the relationship between Christ and the church who is the bride and how these two are joined to become one so that there is not to wills. This was shocking to me first one week ago. Because in the moment that we started the fellowship with you around seven months ago you mentioned the Father many times. And what happened the last week is like the opening of the eyes more concerning who the Father is. And then when you see who the Father is, you understand who the son is.if you do not understand who the Father is you do not understand who the son is. one of the parts cannot be missing. If one of the parts are missing then you do not have the whole truth. In the devil has a chance to get in on this point. I don't like to talk about this because there are many misunderstandings that can get in here. But because of the burden that the Lord put in your heart I have been quiet for a long time when you're interrupted me in the fellowship. You say, "you tell me about the Father?" I say "yes." You say, "you tell me about the son?" I said "yes." But how does this happen? For the human eye these things are impossible to understand.

Believer 2: could we say that they are one, but different persons? So the persons are different, but they are one.

Believer 1: but to be one and to be different persons is something that the human brain cannot understand, even the best human brain. And I recommend that the people did not try to understand. If you want to really live a healthy life, don't try. These things come by revelation. And the Lord is going to put me in pieces concerning what I'm sharing. We are going to go to the preliminaries. John said in the beginning, "the word... And the word was God... And the word was with God." If we go to the Old Testament, "let us make man." If you come back and see the life of Jesus even as a 12-year-old, "I am in my Father's business." It didn't say I am my business. It didn't say I am in Joseph's business. He said, "I am in my Father's business." Even Mary. When we come back into the whole life of the Lord Jesus, the and his human living as the Word become flesh never separated, as shown in John 17, from the Father.

The first subtitle in this Bible says, "the Son is glorified so that the Father glorified." I'm not can put it in this way, "that the son may be glorified, that the Father may be glorified." I will say, "that the son may be glorified, that the Father is already glorified." We're going to go to in Scripture and read the details of the relationship between the Father and the son, which is so glorious that if we don't see this to have an open veil to see the theFather is, to have an open veil see the the son is, we are still blind. "These things Jesus spoke lifting up his eyes to heaven." Why did he lift up his eyes to heaven? Because the baby ones, the ones in the nursery, need need to be shown some things to understand who the Father is. Then he says, "Father, the hour has come." The Lord Jesus knew before the foundation of the world what is going to happen to him. "Glorify your son." In other words, I am in you, and you are in me, it is time to show that it is you who send me, that you love me and that you are one with me. "Glorify your son," this is one part of the couple which is the Father and the son, "that the son may glorify you," the son can do nothing without the Father. Because the unit cannot broken. The son in the beginning was the word, they are not separated. He starts with the Father, then he says "glorify your son, that this son may glorify you." Who is this you? It is the Father. And then he says, "even as you have given to him," in other words, even as the Father has given Jesus authority over all the flesh. "To give eternal life to all that you." Who is this you? The Father is who gives. The Father is who gives. "You have given him," so the Father gives to the son everything, even us. "And this is eternal life, that they may know the Father." It doesn't say this here, but that's the way that I'm going to say it. It says, "that they might know you." Who is this "you"? It is the Father. "The Father and to whom you have sent, Jesus Christ." "The only true God." Who is the only true God? The Father, this is the only true God. "And him." Who is this him"? "Jesus, whom you have sent."

And verse four, "I have glorified you on the Earth." "I," Jesus have glorified the Father, on the earth. "Finish the work, Which you have you given to me.". Who is this you?  "The Father, has given to me, to do." So the Father gives the commandment to the son and the son obeys.  Where are the two wills? This is what he is. "And now," he doesn't say tomorrow, he doesn't say it future tense, he doesn't say it in the past tense. He says, "now glorify me along yourself."  There is no glorification without himself. It is himself? The Father. And maybe someone will misunderstand, so he says, "Father with the glory which I had with you," The Son says, "I had the glory with you Father, you are before the world was." The and the recovery version is a subtitle after this it says, "that the believers may be built up into one." What is into one? Into to the Father, in the son by the spirit. And then has a small subtitle, "in the Father's name by the eternal life." In what name?In the name of Jesus? Why did the brothers put in the Father's name?

 In verse six, "I have manifested," the version says, "your name." I am going to say, "I have manifested Father to the men you have given me out of the world." In other words the Father does the complete job also. "They were yours." Who is yours? The Father gives, the son brings back to the Father. What kind of unity is this? Have you ever seen this kind of unity? Does someone have a chance to live his kind of unity? I just know one that has this kind of unity. Jesus does this unity. But who is the author that perfects this? Jesus. But it shows Jesus to be the author of the perfecter? The Father. “I have manifested your name to the men?" What name? The Father, Elohim, Adonai, Kadosh.  Who is this you? Father. "You Father, gave me out of the world, they were yours Father, and Father gave them to me." But who gives to Jesus the inheritance? That they have kept your word. What word? The word of Jesus, the Word became flesh. In the book of Revelation that says, "I see the word."  But here, the word.  What word.  The word of the Father. "Now,"it doesn't say tomorrow, "they have come to know all that is been given to be is from you." So I will say, "they have come to know that all that you have given me Father is from you Father." "For the words which your Fatherhave given to me, I have given to them." Where the two wills? Where is this that the believers are different, the Father is different, the son is different? NO! All our the same. So what would say, "this is completely outside of the ground of the mind." I would say yes to that. "Things which it has not seen, ear has not heard, the theFather has prepared for those who love Him," period. But the Lord has not allowed this period to close, he allows it to keep going through. And he says (and I repeat because this is really good), "the words which you Father had given to me Jesus, I have given to them, my couple." It cannot be one if you want to be a disciple, you need to be a couple. When it says that they have become one flesh, what kind of flesh? Do you feel that it is the old flesh, the old creation? NO! The word became flesh and completed the whole process until he was presented to the Father. "Don't touch me," until he be presented to the Father. If you don't go through the process of the cross, follow the same way that Jesus went, and present your bodies a living sacrifice, you are not going to have any clue brothers.

 "The words that you give it to me Father, I have given to them." It is not just one, it is a multitude, it is many.  It is millions.  Is it all those who live in the flesh? There is no way, he is a holy God. Then it says, "and they received them," in other words, brotherly love. "And they knew truly." Who is it that knows? Those that have the same nature. "Knew," it is not mental knowledge, it is not because you read. It is because you know. Some brothers of the past say, "I know that I know that I know." This kind of knowing is not a knowing of the head, it is it knowing of the new heart. It is to feel with the Father feels. "And have known that I came from the Father, and they have believe that you Father has sent me." The other words if you forget about the Father you are in trouble. "I asked concerning them." concerning  who? The church, the divine nature. "I did not ask concerning the world." But we want the world. "But those who you Father had given to me." To who did he give? To Jesus. "For they are yours," in other words of the Father has given to the son, is going to be returned to the Father. "And all that is mine," Jesus goes to the point of emptying himself again, "and all that is mine is yours." In other words the son said to the Father, "all that you give me, take it back." "And yours is mine." "And I have a glorified in them." But not only is the son glorified in the Father, but the son glorified in the sons, the heirs who have the same nature, those of the Father's chosen."

And then it says, "I am no longer the world, yet they are the world.". Who Is of the world? Them. "And I am coming to you." To what you?To the Father. Then it says, "holy Father... Keep them." And keeps them? Jesus? The Father! "It your name..." And what name? The name of the Father. All that Jesus received, all the authority, even the name of Jesus is brought to him. What kind of unity is that! "That they may be one as we are... When I was with them, I kept them in your name." In other words Jesus had the authority to keep the disciples in the name of the Father. Who is preaching this? It is amplified when you said. Then it says, "which you Father had given to me." Who is me? Jesus. "And I have kept them, and not one of them has perished... Except the son of perdition so the the Scripture by be fulfilled... But now I'm coming to you Father. In these things I speak of the world that they may have by Joy.  What joy? The joy of the Lord Jesus, "made full in themselves." This is really good.

 That he says this, "I have given that your word." He doesn't say "my word," he says the Father's Word." "And the world has hated them," or the world cannot tolerate them. In other words, if you are with the Father and with the son this world is not going to tolerate you. Why does the world not tolerate us? Because we are part of a different kingdom. Jesus said, "my kingdom is not of this world." This is huge. "Because they are not of the world," this is of explanation, "even as I have not of the world. I did not ask that you take them out of the world." Jesus said you have a mission, the world is a mission field, you need to accomplish something. "But that you would keep them." Who will keep them? The Father."Out of the hands of the evil one." And keeps them out of the hands of the evil one? The Father.  Who allows the household of faith to survive? The Father. And he emphasizes again, "they are not of the world." Why does he need to repeat that? Maybe somebody does not understand. Maybe I don't understand, or some other brother doesn't understand. Maybe we all don't understand. "Even as I am not of the world." In other words brothers and sisters, who have a heavenly calling, Co-partakers of the divine nature, forget about this world. "Sanctify them in the truth." Who is the truth? The Father. "Your word is truth." In other words, whatever the Father says, "let there be light... Let us make man." What kind of authority is this! "As you sent me into the world,"  the Lord Jesus was sent into this world. This is huge, it is a huge blessing. "I have also sent them back to the world, and for their sake I sanctify myself... That they themselves might also be sanctified."Were sanctified into the Father, not just only Jesus. In other words all of them become one. "But I do not ask concerning them only." What love! "But concerning those who will believe through their word." "Concerning those who will believe it took me through their word," the word of the Father. All authority is given here, and that Is the huge blessing. The most brothers live in verse 20, the to go any further.  But we cannot cut the first part and just use this, because it completely changes the meaning of everything. Then he says, "that they may all be one, even as you Father are in me and I in you, that they also may be made one." What kind of unity is this! "That the world may believe that you have sent me." I see the love of the Father here at different stages. I see how all become one, I see how just believing in the name gives the opportunity to become one."

 In verse 23, "that the world may believe that you have sent me," in other words, the world doesn't believe. This is what it is referring to when it says, "all creation groans the manifestation of the sons of God." For some sons, are going to mature in the last hour. "And the glory which you (the Father) have given to me (the Son), I have given to them (us)... That they may be what you as we are one." The inheritance is there. Jesus is the one who says this, here is the couple, the bride and the bridegroom, I am them in you and me. "That they may be perfected into one, that the world may know that you have sent me and have loved them." So not only that Jesus is loved, but that we are love. And who Loves us? The Father. "For God so loved the world." "And you have loved them even as you have love me." Perfect unity.  "Concerning them which you have given me Father, I desire that they (us) also may be with me (Jesus) where I am." This is our problem, we need to go wherever Jesus goes. Who will follow the lamb wherever he goes? (Revelation) "that they may behold my glory," the same nature the same image, "which you Father have given me, for you loved me before the foundation of the world." We are almost closed with this wonderful expression of the Father by the son. Then he says, "righteous Father, though the world is not known you." Why do we keep our righteousness if we have the righteousness of the Father? "Yet I have known you, and these have know that you have sent me." In other words I am the firstborn, I am the beloved who is pleasing to the Father, this is my Son Jesus. "And I have made your name." What name? The name of the Father, "known to them (us), and will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them (the same love of the Father), and I in them."

Glory to God.Glory to You Father, for giving your Son to us.

Fellowship February 20th, 2013

Christ Formed in us is a completed work

Fellowship in the Household of Faith

02/20/2012

BELIEVER 1: In Him we live and move and have our being.  The whole bible is about bringing man back to God, bringing him into God, and restoring to his environment.  In Him we live and move and have our being.  This is the fundamental truth of the spiritual life, that there is one issue that I suggest to you, which if you grasp it, would be such tremendous help to you.  When the Lord says anything, it may look on the surface to be something very simple, and not at all profound and wonderful.  But anything that comes from the Lord, though it may be apparently simple, it contains a vast knowledge and understanding that the Lord has which we may not take account of. When the Lord Jesus says, “abide in Me,” it sounds so simple and ordinary, but it contains all of this history and this great principle of truth.  If you get out of your environment you are exposed to the poisons and all kinds of spiritual disease.  Abide in Christ for your health’s sake.” Abide in Me and I in you.”  Have you got that?  You look again at any seemingly little thing that the Lord says, and if you can see you could find that there is a universe of meaning in it. 

Here it is talking about bringing what the bible is in reality, bringing it into our being.  Even though we may not be able to grasp it, the Lord will be able to grasp it through us, as long as you have the principle of truth that is here. 

BELIEVER 6: I want to share this.  Advice to the Youth.  Be happy about being young, walk in the way of the of your own heart in the days of you youth, and walk by the sight of your eyes. But overall, know that you will be judged by God in all of these things.

BELIEVER 6:  From the Knowledge of Life by Witness Lee (Chapter 13)

“Before we were saved, while we were yet sinners, we often offended God and wronged men in our conduct and behavior; our heart was filthy and deceitful; therefore, the conscience, being darkened, was full of offenses and leakages and was extremely unclean. “

BELIEVER 4: we are talking about the old man, right? 

BELIEVER 2: we haven’t used those terms, but yes, we are talking about the old man. 

BELIEVER 6: Continues with the Knowledge of Life

“Hence, as soon as we are saved, we should deal with the conscience. When we were first saved, a major portion of the lessons we learned, such as making restitution for past debts, clearing our old living, etc., was to cause us, even from the outset of following the Lord, to deal adequately with the conscience that it be clean and without offense. Afterwards, during our entire life of following the Lord, we might fail at times and become weak, thereby falling into sin and the flesh or becoming contaminated and occupied by the world, thus again causing our conscience to have both offenses and leakages; therefore we need to deal continually with our conscience that it may be kept constantly free of offense. First Timothy 1:19 says: “Holding...a good conscience; which some having thrust from them made shipwreck concerning the faith.” This shows us that dealing with the conscience is very much related to the growth of life. Whenever we thrust aside the conscience and neglect the conscience, life is immediately blocked and imprisoned. Therefore, if we desire to have growth in life, if we want the life within us to have an outlet and grow out from our heart, it is imperative that we deal with the conscience.To deal with the conscience means to deal with all the offenses and the restless and uneasy feelings of the conscience.”

BELIEVER 3: can you explain this, it is a little complex.

BELIEVER 6: Resolving the problems of the conscience means to eliminate all of the offences and disturbing feeling of the conscience.

“Before God, whether we become unrighteous because of sin, unholy because a part of the world has occupied our heart, or uneasy because of other inharmonious conditions, our conscience condemns us within, thus causing us to have feelings of offense and uneasiness before God. If we want to deal with the conscience, we must pay attention to such consciousnesses in the conscience. Therefore, to deal with the conscience is to deal with these consciousnesses in the conscience. When we have dealt thoroughly with them, our conscience can be exceedingly clean and secure having neither offense nor accusation.In this way life can naturally grow out from within us.”

This is really difficult what Witness Lee shares.  But it is good because it cleans all the dirtiness and thorns our conscience has, and all the things that we have in our interior life.I think that this is a good analysis of the conscience which is the motor of the heart. 

BELIEVER 2: I am going to go back and answer more thoroughly the question of BELIEVER 4.  I said that Witness Lee was sharing about the conscience of the old man, but he is actually talking about the conscience of the old man within believers. 

BELIEVER 4: you mean an unbelieving (Verb), believer (noun, person).

BELIEVER 2: that is a good way to put it. 

BELIEVER 4: I just thought, because we are talking in the realm of conscience, and norms and standards, that we needed a subject and a verb differentiation, which can be rather deceptive in itself (just using the term believer). 

BELIEVER 6: yes, and this analysis by Witness Lee is to shake a person who is not really a believer.  So a lot of people are not real believer.

BELIEVER 4: Yes, or a deceived believer. 

BELIEVER 2: I like this terminology because it helps me in my own experience, or regarding myself.  And I have not found a way to express it quite like that, that a person can be a believer in the sense of a noun, but not be a believer in the sense of a verb, or can be a deceived believer, which may be a person that has believed but has is in some kind of darkness regarding the truth, or is being deceived to just leave it at that. 

BELIEVER 4: yes, they have a positional truth BELIEVER 2, but the experience is gone. 

BELIEVER 5: Prayer

From HWMR Daniel, Zecariah (Week 1)

The Rule of the Heavens, the Economy of God, and the Excellent Christ as the Precious and Preeminent One in God’s Move. 

The central thought of Daniel is that the ruling of the heavens by the God of the heavens over tall the human government on earth matches God’s eternal economy for Christ to terminate the old creation for the germination of the new creation and to smash and crush the aggregate of human government and establish the eternal kingdom of God.

The Most High is the Ruler over the kingdom of men and gives it to whomever He wills.  We need to see a vision of the throne  of God as the center of God’s administration.  God on the throne is behind the scene, ruling over everyone and everything.   We need to “come to know that the heavens do rule.”  We need to see God’s economy as it is revealed in the book of Daniel.  God desires to make Christ the centrality and universality of His move on earth.  There is the need of Christ’s second coming to clear up the universe physically and materially; in particular, there is the need of Christ’s second coming to terminate human government.  Daniel reveals that now Christ as the Son of M<an is before the throne of God to receive dominion and a kingdom.  The excellent Christ, the centrality and universality of God’s economy, is the precious and preeminent One in God’s move.  Christ appeared in His strong speaking for judging people, as signified by the sound of His words being like the sound of a multitude.  As a man, such a Christ is precious, valuable, complete, and perfect.  God’s intention in His administration is to give Christ the preeminence in all things, to cause Christ to have the first place in everything.  Christ must have the first place, the preeminence, in our personal universe.  Today Christ, the preeminent One,  must be the centrality and universality in our church life, family life, and daily life.  As those who have been chosen by God to be His people for Christ’s preeminence, we are under God’s heavenly rule.  The purpose of the heavenly ruling is to complete God’s elect so that Christ may be preeminent, that He may be the first-the centrality-and everything-the universality.  We all need to learn that this universe is under God’s administration and that God’s intention in His administration is to make Christ preeminent, to cause Him to have the first place in all things. 

“He is everything, and we have to learn to give Him the first place in all things, all the time, not only in certain moments, and in all places.  If He doesn’t help us, we can’t do anything.  One needs to be emptied so that God can fill and do everything for that person.”

BELIEVER 4: I have a registration of a few different things in my conscience during that reading, like BELIEVER 6 was talking about conscience.  At one point in the reading, the expression was, “I think,” and another was one about ,”a choice.”  And when I heard those two expressions in the context in which they were being shared, then it caused me to reflect on BELIEVER 5’s opening comment about when she said, “I feel weak.”  I and said that to say this, that if that was accurate, what was read, then because of what was said, I could see where the weakness would be. 

BELIEVER 2: I think, that BELIEVER 2 said, “I think” during the translation, in reference to my own self saying “I think” because I was sure how to translate what BELIEVER 5 was sharing.  So she didn’t share the words “I think.”  I said, in the midst of translating, “I think” because I was sure about what I was communicating. 

BELIEVER 4: how about the one where it says that we are chosen.  The way that was spoken also took it out of context, in the sense that we have been chosen in Christ.  We have not been chosen outside of Christ.  So the sense that came in, in my conscience, was that it wasn’t spoken in the context of “chosen in Christ,” which consequently puts us in a very weak position.  What just actually transpired was that the person was a believer, but the person experienced being an unbeliever.  So I just experienced what BELIEVER 6 read earlier, in listening to what was being communicated.

BELIEVER 3: I feel that we need the Lord.  We have points in which the Lord is working with us, in which if we don’t turn to Him, we feel that it is really difficult to understand what He is working in us.  This is one side of the coin.  But if we go to the other side of the coin, we can see that the Lord doesn’t despise anyone.  This is something that we can’t bear in our old self.  I feel that the Lord has allowed a circumstance between the brothers and sisters, in the days before, in which we are brought to know a continual need.  The only way to receive all the things that we have in Christ is by the death of the old creation.  The apostle Paul said, “I keep my body under death.”  In the moment that this happens in reality, we have the access to all things that we have in Christ, immediately.  We touched this point with BELIEVER 4 in the morning.  If we go to the original in Greek and we review the meaning of “that Christ may be formed in you,” and if we see “that Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith,”  in reality we come to a point in which we can’t go anywhere without the Spirit of the Lord giving a clear manifestation of what He is working with us.  When I reviewed some material after the fellowship with BELIEVER 4; I had the chance to see, we have access to everything immediately in Christ.  This sounds wonderful…and BELIEVER 4 pointed out something that Bill Freeman showed, but I will put not only part of what Bill Freeman says, but how he dealt with everything, in his book, “The Church is Christ.”  There, we arrive to an inner reality concerning what the New Testament is regarding the corporate Christ.  And he gives an example about how this happens, whether it is progressive or instantaneous.  I am going to read some portion. 

Christ being formed in us, is like having the system folder in operating order. If I am not interacting with Christ, then I am interacting with the law, or what is formed in my mind. I am interacting with my feelings of discouragement or the reasonings of my mind. My point of reference when I go through things is not Christ, but it is something else. It is my feelings, the outward circumstances, the situation, the law, what I’m supposed to be, or even what I’m not — all these mental gyrations that go on within us. The principle is that whatever is formed in me is what I interact with. If Christ is formed in me, crying, “Abba, Father,” I interact with Him. If something else is formed in me, I interact with that.

BELIEVER 4: present active participle “Crying”

BELIEVER 3: Christ formed in me doesn’t mean I’m perfect, that I’m a finished product. Christ formed in me means that my point of reference is always and ever Christ — that He would have the first place in everything. So I don’t know how to handle myself. I don’t know how to handle sin. I don’t know how to handle my reactions to my environment. But Christ has already handled all these things. So by taking Him as my point of reference in all these things,I remain in fellowship with Him.

BELIEVER 4: but has Christ already handled all these things BELIEVER 3?

BELIEVER 3: I'm going to go to this point so that we have a base for our experience. I am not just reading words, I'm not taking parts that I don't experience, and taking parts that I experienced.

BELIEVER 4: this is potentially quite painful, unless Christ has already dealt with it. This context is vital, whole paragraph and everything is vital. Otherwise will pass out, you read the rest of the paragraph that would probably quicken the dead.

BELIEVER 3: "But Christ has already handled all these things So by taking Him as my point of reference in all these things, I remain in fellowship with Him.". How did Christ handle all of these things? After Bill Freeman talks about the tense of the verb, he understands the Greek.

When Paul speaks of Christ being “formed” in you, he uses the Greek aorist tense, indicating that it happens at a point in time. This bothered me for years, because most Bible teachers have interpreted the word “formed” as though it was a present tense, giving the impression that it means a process happening over a period of time...They were, as Paul says in Galatians 5:4, “discharged” from Christ living and operating in them, because they went to something else. Instead of Christ being formed in them, Moses was formed in them, circumcision was formed."

This happens to us if we don't allow Christ to operate in us. And we're not an exception. Because, "Instead of Christ being formed in them, Moses was formed in them, circumcision was formed." This is what we are, because we normally come from the life and teachings under law. How do we get free from this body of sin and death.  We have everything instantaneously in the spirit, that how does this glorious Christ manifests himself as our life? Or do we have him imprisoned inside?"Maybe due to your religious background, what is formed in your mind right now are your own thoughts about the way you’re supposed to be. You feel like you can’t get to the Lord until you fulfill some requirement."

In other words, whosever, if they are not freed from the law they cannot allow Christ to operate. Even if Christ is formed in us and it is instantly. If we are really born again we have the Lord in us, and Christ is formed in us, but we live by the old things that are formed in us.

BELIEVER 2: so this is like being believers only in noun, but not being believers in verb.

BELIEVER 4: BELIEVER 3, are you telling us that the cross delivers us not only from the flesh, world, and the devil, but also from the law?

BELIEVER 3: of course.  "And Your point of reference is the Head. Seize the Head. Don’t you seize ordinances or regulations, such as, “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle” (Col. 2:20-21)."

BELIEVER 4: it has been more like a study tonight. But I'm looking forward to enjoying the sweet bread after these things have been discussed by the brothers. I realize that is a little challenging because it is more the study.

BELIEVER 3: "Seize the Head and you will grow with the growth of God." And here brother Bill Freeman puts the details of what it means to have fellowship with the Lord. "What an encouragement that right now all of us can have Christ as  our point of reference — our relationship with the Father, our relationship with one another, our relationship to everything in our life. When He is formed within our heart, we are fellowshipping with Him, partaking of Him, drinking and eating Him, and living from Him. Amen. Isn’t this wonderful? And when there is a group of people on this earth enjoying this reality, then it doesn’t matter what problems or what weaknesses they have, or how many battles and bruises they have. Brothers and sisters, all these things are for Christ to become all in him  and him and him all to you. When He is all in all to you..."

Then brother Bill Freeman talks some important points on the passive voice...

"This is brought out by observing that the verb “formed” is in the passive voice, rather than the active. The active voice wouBeliever 3 imply that we are somehow responsible for Christ to be formed in us, but the passive voice tells us that something outside ourselves is the means for Christ to be formed in us. In other words, God uses a means or agent to form Christ in us. The agent He uses is the Word of God."

Here is a very serious point that 99.99% of people do not understand...

"Thus, as we come under the hearing of the Word, it becomes the agent that forms Christ in us. This Word brings us under the hearing of faith, and Christ is formed in our heart."

So we can be hearing the word, but if we're not hearing with the hearing of faith, we are not hearing anything. In he explained something of Romans 10:8, "In Romans 10:8 Paul says, “ ‘The word is near you, even in your mouth and in your heart,’ that is, the word of faith which we preach.”

This is key. "This is called “the hearing of faith” (Gal. 3:2, 5). He was formed by the spoken Word. So the way Christ is formed in us is not by works of law, but by the hearing of faith...This shows us that the Christian life is entirely a matter of grace from beginning to end."

This destroys our self-righteousness brothers. And then this is what BELIEVER 4 was talking about this morning...

BELIEVER 4:. Can I interject something here which may be helpful? In the light of what BELIEVER 6 asked, how is Christ formed in us? If we jump into the New Testament about the preaching of the gospel, and we overlook the fact that Christ the son, in his obedience to the father, was where all of this was formed in man for us. Not just the preaching of the word, but Christ being the word lived out, this is where it happened, no other place, this is where it happened. Because of what he actually did, and then when we hear this preached that this life was formed in us in the person of Christ, then, that is the good news.

BELIEVER 2: that takes it out of our hands putting him in that type way.

BELIEVER 4: Amen, because there's so many preachers, who say they preach Christ to you, but it is really not.  Christ didn't preach, Christ lived it out for us. That is where all of this is formed in us, Christ and his relationship with the father, and the father living out his life in the son. This is it, this is the good news.

BELIEVER 6: that is the grace of God

BELIEVER 4: yes it is. It is in the person of Christ first. Once we understand this in person Christ, Bill Freeman in his book "the supplied life", on April 20th, it talks about then we cooperate with God's operation, the in the middle voice begins to work out, like him Philippians 2:12,13, it begins to work out what has already been worked into Christ who is in us.  Now we begin to work out, middle voice, what Christ has already completely finished in us. This is unbelievable, this is phenomenal. This is the phenomenal.  On page 111, it talks about the middle voice, in the middle voice happens after Christ lives this out for us as us. This is unbelievable, this needs to be known. This is the great misunderstanding in Christianity. 

BELIEVER 2: it is good for one to have things taken out of their hands. Many times we have the sense, or many of the sense that they need to work out their salvation and active voice, but really is a false burden, because in reality it is in the middle voice. It is good to see that.

BELIEVER 4: once we realize of the cross is delivered us from the ordinances, then we cannot work out something according to the law anymore, now we are related to the spirit in us, which we submit to by allowing (letting, and permitting), and now the spirit is released because we are oriented to the spirit as sons now, not as servants to the ordinances. And this is where we begin to discover the "working out." The sons work it out, the slaves try to do something according to the ordinances. This is the revelation that we get right at this point, that we are sons releasing the spirit of our father, because now we are oriented to the father, not to the law of God, but to the love of the father. Isn't this wonderful! Not to a judge, but to a lover. Amen. So our faith works by love, doesn't it. So we're working it out, it is an active faith, what is our the been worked into Christ who is in us.

Brother Freeman in his "the supplied life" when April 16th, page 107, this relates back to BELIEVER 6's knowing life, the conscience.  It goes right into this then releases us into the realm of consciousness of him in us which causes us to understand the "work out." The title for the and a is "helped to the realm of life." And he says, this was worked into Christ because of his obedience to the father, and it says for the verse of the day, "because I live, you will live also."  So the whole section in here really opens up a brother Diego were sharing earlier, about Christ being formed in us, and then God himself is operating in us, it it is him operating within us. And then when we are conscious of him operating in us as we are, then we begin to release him operating within us in this is the "work out."  Isn't this wonderful! This is very good news! If we go into the person of Christ, this is where we find the life of the middle voice, where Jesus sees the father working, and as the father works he works. Remember that in the gospel of John, this is the picture. Isn't that wonderful! Because this is the sinless son of God, not a slave, but a sinless son who is one with the father, and the father is working, and as the son he sees the father working the Son releases the work of the father through himself, and this is why he lived the way he lived and did the things he did. This is the same one we have in us today.  When we have the mind of Christ.  In "the supplied life" on April 9 we have the same thing, "a mindset to experience Christ." It talks about the supplied mind and asks, where is Christ in this? What is Christ in this? You know, gaining Christ, the inner operation of God.  It wouldn't be fair at this point to not only said that the cross is delivered us from the world, and from ourselves, and the devil, and from ordinances, but we got into earlier, but now because wherein John 5:17-19, or Jesus said that he couldn't do anything of himself but only that which he sees the father do, that those are the things that he does.  The thought after that when he says the father loves the son and shows him all things that he himself does, and he will show him greater works than these that you may marvel.  Then in verse 22 it says, "but the father judges no man but has committed all judgment unto the son." And right there we have also been delivered from not only the ordinances, but we have also been delivered from the judge because when Christ died the judge died who evaluates according to the law.  This is what we are receiving, deliverance from our judgmental attitude, our self-righteousness, because when Christ became the judge, as it says, "the father has given all judgment to the son," when Christ died not only for our sins, but died as the judge, this is where we are released from the conscience that judges everything, and we are filled with the love of a father who loves everyone. Hallelujah

And you know how we sing that song there's power in the blood

There is power, power, wonderworking power

In the blood of the lamb

Why is there wonderworking power? It is not only that Jesus died first sins, it is the Jesus died as the judge. And now we are not only forgiven, but we get to forget, we don't even have to evaluate according to the law anymore, and be self-righteous and judge each other, now we have a relationship with the father, the love of God is shed abroad in our heart by the spirit. This is the out working, the Holy Spirit shedding abroad the love of God in our hearts for everyone.

BELIEVER 2: for reference this verse, that "the father gave all judgment to the son and the son judges no one" but the son went to the cross and ended all of that. Hallelujah there's power in the blood.  The accuser of the brethren is gone. That's amazing.

BELIEVER 4: this is where the blood the sprinkled on our conscience on the mercy seat. It's not just the shed blood of the brazen altar, this is the sprinkled blood the mercy seat right on our hearts in the innermost place.  In the seed of judgment has become a seat of love of the father of glory from the throne.  This is where the ruling and reigning in life happens. "And he showed man a River of the water of life crystal clear flowing from the throne.

BELIEVER 2: There is ministration of righteousness, instead of the ministration of death.

BELIEVER 4: and is imparting the righteousness to us as a gift, clothing us. 

BELIEVER 3: would you like to share burden for this night?

BELIEVER 2: actually or were talking about is pretty amazing and my burden has been taken away. 

BELIEVER 4: yes there is no burden here; there is a release of the spirit. 

BELIEVER 3: acceptance of what Christ did for us, this is the whole thing, the acceptance of the finished work of Christ. The details of how this works out, this is where we are now. 

BELIEVER 2: I to say from my own mind,  that it is so easy to hold this concept of the finished work of Christ only in the legal and outward realm.  And we talked about tonight, about how it has actually been formed in us, and that is also finished work. 

BELIEVER 3: brother Bill Freeman relates these truths to John Wesley and George Whitefield and he says, “that is why the spirit worked in such a dynamic way in their day.

“But certainly religion is quite another thing, They know by experience that true religion is a union of the soul with God, a real participation of the divine nature, the very image of God drawn upon the soul, or, in the apostle’s phrase, it is ‘Christ formed within us.’ Briefly, I know not how the nature of religion can be more fully expressed, than by calling it a divine life.”

BELIEVER 2: I will interject here a little bit, in this relates to what the Lord is done within different members of the body, so BELIEVER 3, this morning read some things about George Whitfield and went to the house looking for the book by George Whitfield. Today while I was in the library I was strolling through the couple thousand books that they have in the religious section and I picked out the Journal of George Whitfield without any communication with BELIEVER 3, and I never had any interest in George Whitfield before, but I describe that today. It's the Lord's mercy.

BELIEVER 3: in the book of George Whitfield, he shares, “God showed me, that the true was union of the soul with God in Christ formed in us.” It's good to talk about union and the soul with God like Jeanne Guyon talks about, and we correlated with what she says, “. A ray Divine light shined upon my soul, and that from that moment on I knew I was to be a new creature.” The last part of the book of Bill Freeman we see the missing piece. Because we say, “well everything is done in the spirit, we have a chance to enjoy Christ.” On page 191: this is not something I like to share but it's very important to point out, he talks about nullifying Christ. 

“In the New Testament there are many words that reveal to us that the church is Christ, but there are also many words and examples that show us that we can nullify Christ and the reality of the church. If we are persons who do not handle Christ and experience Him, then we will nullify the reality of what we say we believe. When Christ Himself is replaced by anything, then the church no longer expresses Him.

In other words, does the true issue, he says, “if Christ can be nullified and experience, then surely the church life can be nullified also.”

“This word from Paul in Galatians is helpful to all of us. It perhaps helps to explain our experiences in the past, when under certain situations, we felt like the Lord was virtually absent from a place. The atmosphere of freedom was lost. Christ was nullified. This word will also preserve us as we go on together in the church life in the coming years. May we always maintain the blood bought atmosphere of freedom for the full enjoyment of Christ that the church would be in the reality of Christ.”

I feel we cannot separate the finished work of Christ. I reviewed some things and another book, if we look at the grammatical notation Greek, the of the different tenses: Aorist imperative, Aorist imperative middle, Aorist imperative passive, then the Aorist infinitive, passive, middle, active, then the subjunctive which also has an active, middle, and passive.  Then there is the future active, middle, passive, future participle active middle, middle, and passive. In the present passive middle participle, perfect is indicative and participle in active and middle. In other words the Lord himself, by the father's working in the son by the spirit of the voice and the way that no one has a chance to manage it, but only the spirit of the living God.  The Scriptures is a book of mystery.  So the spirit reveals these things to the sons who are willing to play with the father wants to play.

BELIEVER 4: did you say that the son, or a son in the son.

BELIEVER 3: it's just the son. If we are in the son we have life we are not in the son we do not have life. We can say that we are part of Christ, part of his body which is the church, one with Christ. So when we talk about the three voices active middle and passive and we go to how the Scripture was written and how the Lord Jesus handle this, we are completely nothing but want to play with but Christ has done.

BELIEVER 4: you am nothing and everything, both

BELIEVER 3: yes and without him, we are nothing even if we have the knowledge of the structure of the verb, and the different grammatical forms of the verb. So we have a chance to have the logos of Scripture, but without the life of the son of God active and present an infinite what the Lord is doing,  we are zero. 

BELIEVER 2: maybe someone has received the seed and they are a believer positionally, but they are a deceived believer because there are stuck in this active and passive mentality.

BELIEVER 3: this is what we're talking about being formed according to the law.

BELIEVER 4: like you said if they receive the seed, but they only received it in their mind, and not in the good soil, which is the heart, there is no way that it can germinate because it lacks moisture, and heat, and the warmth of the father's love.  So they can mentally believe it objectively, but unless they have received it subjectively, then it is not going to bear fruit just like the parable of the sower.  Like the seed that was sown among the thorns, they received it joyfully, but unless it falls on the good ground it is not going to bring forth fruit.

BELIEVER 3: no one knows the father except the son, and no one knows the son except the father. I could talk to you for the last three years from the perspective of seeing things from the father, that the son is to have responsibility, and the son says I cannot handle this, but if we go to the position of the son, that the son is immature, the son is just to take some part and go enjoy this life. This is the missing point Christianity, because everyone forgets about the son, but they forgot to talk about the father accomplished everything in the son.

BELIEVER 4: is the other part, “and to whom the son chooses to reveal the father.” In Matthew 11:25-27. Because it is the son’s choice to reveal the father. The sons choice is in the middle voice.  “You have not chosen me, I have chosen you.” So the relationship between the father and son is beautiful, that they only know the each other, but then said that there is an opportunity for the son to choose to reveal the father to different ones. This is where we have hope. Praise the Lord! Because that would just be isolated just between the father and the son. No one else would know. In English that would be a compound complex sentence. A compound, because there's the father the son, and complex because the son chooses to reveal the father to others. Compound complex.